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Subject Topic: Diesel to be punished?
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Personalan29
12/1/2017 at 1:32pm
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There would seem to be a change of view about diesel cars and the pollution they cause. I have been reading articles suggesting that the duty on both the cars and the fuel might increase and that cities will start to ban them. The plan is to discourage people from driving diesel cars.
Now I know that trucks and buses are worse (because they are not as well maintained?) but that is not the point. It is cars that are most likely to be targetted.
Are there petrol cars around with the same torque as our diesels? Are there petrol cars around with the same sort of weight as our diesels?
If there are fewer diesel cars around, will caravan manufacturers be prepared to reduce the weight of their vans enough to take account of much lighter tugs?


PersonJuanHuNose
12/1/2017 at 1:47pm
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To answer a few points:-
1. Trucks and buses are generally more highly maintained than your average car (how many cars have six-weekly inspections?)
2.Yes, modern turbo petrols can have as much torque as diesels.
3. Yes, there are petrol cars as heavy as diesels, they are just usually bigger (more expensive)
4. Lighter vans will come about in time, and when buyers decide they can do without the luxuries that add weight and cost.


PersonOpensauce
12/1/2017 at 1:59pm
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Turbo petrols already exist with at least as much torque as diesels & much more power. Try Volvo XC90 for example.

It's only Europe that has a large market for diesel cars. Rest of world keeps diesel mostly for trucks. Only VW tried to market diesels in US & look at the trouble they got into. Ford, Kia etc do not sell diesel cars into the US market. How about Kia Sorrento 3.3 litre V6 petrol? 290bhp that would pull any caravan you want.

Whatever the future for diesel vehicles in UK/Europe the last thing caravanners need to worry about is that the market will not provide suitable tow vehicles.


Persontango55
12/1/2017 at 2:21pm
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If they ban diesel vehicles from the inner cities and towns it will lead to a loss of vehicle sales nationally because they will be reluctant to trade in a diesel car in part exchange and even if they do, the price tag on a trade in will be dramatically be reduced. However, the percentage of petrol vehicle sales will be mostly related to those who don't want a vehicle for towing but once the trend changes they will start to introduce a ban on petrol vehicles as well with the same results. This is because they will state that the pollution from vehicles with exhaust fumes are a greater risk to the environment which will be the introduction to electric vehicles on a massive scale. Whatever the future holds the caravan industry will undoubtedly decline and most likely perish due to UK legislation.
If they ban diesels from most towns and cities I will most likely just give up caravanning altogether like a lot of people will most likely do.   


Personkpnuts81
12/1/2017 at 3:25pm
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call me cynical but this downer on diesels would not have anything to do with trying to sell electric cars by any chance, today diesel, tomorrow petrol, I for one do not think it has anything to do with health and before everyone jumps on me I know that electric cars are not capable of towing, at this moment in time, having a go at diesel vehicles is the same tactic at having a go at the elderly drip drip drip until it gets a reaction from somewhere in government etc, I do not want to start a political debate so when/if replying and political parties are mentioned/slated I will not be replying.


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PersonOpensauce
12/1/2017 at 3:45pm
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There is no 'downer' on diesels in the UK apart from complaints about pollution in cities caused by older diesels. Current Euro 6 diesels are clean enough. 50% of new UK registrations of cars are diesel & probably 90% of sales of larger cars, ie larger than about Ford Focus size continue to be diesel.

The new much higher road tax rates for new cars reg April onwards still slightly favour larger diesel cars & the biggest losers will be buyers of smaller cars diesel & petrol that currently pay £0/20/30 pa road tax.

The whole thing kicked off in the US caused by faked emissions on VWs that were perfectly legal to drive in Europe anyway.

So it's an internet driven red herring.


Personkpnuts81
12/1/2017 at 4:15pm
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opensauce like I said drip the information bit by bit and sooner or later governments will try to phase them out, today cities tomorrow? an Mp has already muted a scrappage scheme for diesels as they did with older cars and like I said with that in mind it makes me cynical


PersonGrampian91
12/1/2017 at 5:26pm
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As mentioned if they ban diesels in the cities it will be a long time coming. They will need to convert or purchase all new public transport.

Original every bus to be used in London was supposed to be a hybrid after 2012, but they scrapped that after several failures.

I dont know exactly how many hybrid's there are currently, but i wonder how many run on diesel alone due to one issue or another. I am willing to bet its a sizeable percentage. So the diesel bus is lugging around a hybrid system thats actually causing it to produce more pollutants than a standard diesel bus.
Very clever.

They are trying to add Kenetic Energy Recovery Systems to charge the battery whilst braking. In my opinion its a waste of time. Tring to eek out an extra 0.5% but adding extra complexity and more failures.

They would get more power by making passengers turn a manual handle to get a ticket and connect that handle to a small alternator.

So many paths to take and they dont know which ones to take. This path is paved with Gold, but it was bought from Ebay and its actually Lead painted yellow.


PersonRay Clayton
12/1/2017 at 5:42pm
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scrappage scheme
Dont think they will give you what your car is worth!!

I wanted a V8 when i bought this one and could not find one as they are all exported after 2006?

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Ray

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Personkpnuts81
12/1/2017 at 5:58pm
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I agree Ray Clayton


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PersonOpensauce
12/1/2017 at 6:31pm
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Last scrappage scheme in 2009 gave owners at least twice what their cars were worth. No scrappage scheme can work unless it is favourable to car buyers.

Perhaps some folks have little idea what their older car is actually worth? A neighbour has been trying to sell his nice condition 11yr old diesel XTrail for £2k for about 2mnths with no takers. The 'market' is telling him the car is in fact a virtually worthless liability so a scrappage scheme offering any money off a new car would be advantagous.


Persondiesel steve
12/1/2017 at 7:29pm
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Quote: Originally posted by JuanHuNose on 12/1/2017
To answer a few points:-
1. Trucks and buses are generally more highly maintained than your average car (how many cars have six-weekly inspections?)
2.Yes, modern turbo petrols can have as much torque as diesels.
3. Yes, there are petrol cars as heavy as diesels, they are just usually bigger (more expensive)
4. Lighter vans will come about in time, and when buyers decide they can do without the luxuries that add weight and cost.

All my trucks and trailers get 4 weekly inspections, oil and fuel filters changed every 20,000 miles.   I would never buy a petrol car, better economy by miles,


PersonRay Clayton
12/1/2017 at 7:47pm
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Hi Opensauce
That was a max of 2k for a car of 10 years old.
If you talking about a X5 RR Merc, Audi A8 etc most are still going to be worth a lot more than 2k at 10 year old?
And if you have a large diesel worth say 30k whos going buy it, or want it in px on a new petrol car?
They would have to come up with a better deal than 2k for a lot of diesel cars out there.

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Ray

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PersonOpensauce
12/1/2017 at 8:40pm
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There is virtually no market for most cars 10yrs old or more that cost £50k when new. You try & sell one. The sums do not add up. If you can't afford to buy an X5 until it is 10yrs old then if you can afford the first repair bill you probably won't afford the second one.

A car is only worth what anybody is prepared to pay for it & if nobody is prepared to buy it then it is worthless. This is why there are an awful lot more small old cars than large old cars still around.

Post last edited on 12/01/2017 20:44:17


PersonRay Clayton
12/1/2017 at 8:53pm
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Who saying anyone cant afford to buy one until its 10 year old?
what am saying is an X5 and a lot more models out there at up to 10 years old, are worth more than the 2k?



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Ray

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PersonOpensauce
12/1/2017 at 9:09pm
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I don't understand what you mean. Any scrappage sheme would be for old vehicles. For anybody to be interested it would need give them more than they would normally get for a trade in. That was the purpose of the 2009 scheme.

The separate point was that Glasses Guide or any other source can quote the value of any car but if there is nobody prepared to buy the car as might be the case with a large older car that is expensive to run & insure then the car is virtually worthless. You either keep it or sell for whatever derisory figure anybody is prepared to offer.



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