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Subject Topic: Damp Caravan From Dealer
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28/2/2012 at 11:01pm
 Location: Derbyshire
 Outfit: Adria Altea 542DT
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Hi, we are new to the world of caravans and hope someone could give us some advice.

After looking around several second hand caravans (which all seemed to have some sort of damp probelm) we decided the best course of action would be to pay a little more and buy from a reputable dealer.

We eventually managed to find the exact van we wanted at a dealer and the van seemed to be in excellent condition for its age. (2005) When we viewed the van with the dealer we asked about damp. He said there was no need to worry as all the vans are checked for damp and they come with a warranty.

We really fell in love with the van and decided to buy it. We collected the van last week and were really pleased with our purchase.

Over the weekend we decided to give the van a really good clean. When we closely inspected under the offside front seat we noticed some black marks. when we lifted up the vinyl flooring we found large patches of black & mould on the floor. I probed the area with a meter and had 100% reading! In fact it has gone soft and you can easily push you finger nail into it.

We then noticed some slight bobbling to the wall up to the side window. I have pulled the rubber seal back around the window and all the woodwork looks rotten and is black in colour.

I am no expert at finding damp, but surely a dealer should of spotted this during a damp check!

We have contacted the dealer and arranged to take the van back.

My main question is what rights do we have when we go back ?
(We have had the van less than 7 days)

Do we have to allow the dealer to repair the van or are we within out rights to ask for our money back ?

If they do insist on repairing, can we demand that the job is done right. i.e. remove and replace all the damp wallboards.
I am worried that they will offer a repair and will then just cover up the problem.

Any advice anyone could give would be really appreciated.









28/2/2012 at 11:17pm
 Location: Lancashire
 Outfit: Caravan now Sold
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tell him you do not want it as not as described and not fit for use.ask for your money back or another caravan.what he told you was false about the damp check.

-------------
the only silly question is the one you do not ask.


28/2/2012 at 11:30pm
 Location: Cheshire
 Outfit: Compass
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Firstly you have my sympathy as it's a difficult position to be in I would imagine. I think to answer the legal side of things i.e. money back, you would be best to talk to citizens advice to be honest. In terms of the repair all you can do is trust them to carry out the repair properly, which I know I would find hard given in my opinion they should have picked it up if the van has been checked for damp. I would certainly insist on a full and proper repair and i would further insist on a guarantee with the repair.

See how you go on with them and if they try to fob you off, I'd tell them you will get an independant assessment done and will check your consumer rights with trading standards.

Hopefully they will come up with a satisfactory solution for you in the first place and I think you need to allow them that opportunity.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.



28/2/2012 at 11:48pm
 Location: Derbyshire
 Outfit: Adria Altea 542DT
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Thanks for the reply.

In terms of repair are there any other options than to strip the wall and replace all the woodwork ?

i.e - Could they dry the van out, even though the woodwork looks rotten to me. Or is the only real option to replace all the damp / rotten wood.

It's very upsetting to think that we may have to return the van for a refund and then start the search all over again. We have already booked several holidays and were really looking forward to the joys of carvaning!


28/2/2012 at 11:53pm
 Location: Lancashire
 Outfit: Caravan now Sold
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It's very upsetting to think that we may have to return the van for a refund and then start the search all over again. We have already booked several holidays and were really looking forward to the joys of carvanning!

it is upsetting but the problem should not be yours and a repair will always keep you wondering if it has been done correctly.



-------------
the only silly question is the one you do not ask.


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29/2/2012 at 8:47am
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It will probably cheaper for the dealer to refund your money & then try to sell the caravan to somebody else. As he has already tried to rip you off, this scenario won't bother him so point that out to him & request a refund.


29/2/2012 at 10:52am
 Location: warminster
 Outfit: abbey aventura 316 5 berth
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Hi,take it back asap,get refund,its not fit for purpose.Dont let him swop it for another,that amount of damp should have been easily spotted,what area of the country r u in ?

-------------
steve


29/2/2012 at 11:40am
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This could end up a long and drawn out process if you dont get your money back.What happens if the damp returns after the warranty expires ?.Did you get a piece of paper with a diagram on it showing what points on the van were damp tested ?,I think he has been telling you porkies.Your argument could be "If the van was tested for damp like you said,how come this has appeared"Take it back,get your money and go some where else.

-------------
Animals have feelings..

JEFF................


29/2/2012 at 11:44am
 Location: Keswick
 Outfit: Bailey
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You do not say in your post whether you bought the van with cash or using credit, say HP. The way you bought the van determines what legals you use to back your case against the dealer if it refuses to give you what you want. What is set out below is the legal route for dealing with these cases. Many a time you never need to get into legals. Anyway, here are your rights.....

 

Let's assume that you paid cash (maybe via a bank loan).

 

Under the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) your caravan should be of satisfactory quality, sufficiently durable and free from any defects. Further it should be "as described". You comment that the dealer said "there was no need to worry as all the vans are checked for damp and they come with a warranty." If they were the actual words used then the Dealer did not say that it was free of damp, merely not to worry and you have a warranty. However, I don't think that this will be fatal to any legal claim.

 

Timing is important under the SOGA as that determines just what rights you have. As it is less than six months since the date of your purchase then, under s48B of the SOGA ( as amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002) you are entitled to demand a replacement or a repair.

If you elect to have the caravan repaired, then by virtue of section 48B of the SOGA (as amended) the dealer has to comply with two statutory obligations:-

  1. to undertake the repairs within a reasonable period of time, and
  2. without causing significant inconvenience to the you

If you elect to have a replacement, and remember the choice is yours, you cannot do so if that request is impossible to perform or disproportionate to the repair remedy. This is covered by section 48B (3) (a). It may be difficult, for example, to find a like for like, or similar, replacement so that repair is the proper option. However, if the Dealer says it will take until the back end of the year to get the repairs done then he has to provide a replacement caravan. So the onus is on the dealer to get on with the job.

 

Under section 48C of SOGA you can, as a last resort rescind the contract and the Dealer has to give you your money back. However, you can only rescind if it is impossible to repair or replace without significant inconvenience or such repair/replacement is disproportionate or at an additional cost to the dealer. So, rescinding the contract has difficulties, if the dealer sticks to the letter of the law.

 

You need to follow the step by step process under the Act. Ask for a repair or replacement and if they won't do it then you can ask for your money back. You can't go straight to asking for your money back. Many folk think that you can but the law sets out a different process.

 

Remember that, generally, once you have made your choice you are stuck with it. Once they start the repair work, you can’t then say that you have changed your mind and want a new van unless that repair is taking an unreasonable length of time.

In undertaking the repair the dealer has to use reasonable skill and care under the Supply of Goods and Services Act. If it just covers over the problem then that is a separate breach of contract and you can start all over again against the dealer. Get the dealer to specify just how it will undertake the work. However, don't agree that his proposal is acceptable otherwise if its of no benefit the dealer can argue that that is what you agreed to. Just a cautionary note.

 

If you bought the van using an HP arrangement, say via Black Horse, then the legal route is different.

If this an HP arrangement then you have not actually bought the van. The Dealer sold the van to the HP company and you are merely hiring it and paying the HP company for that hire. Once you have paid an agreed amount to the HP company ownership of the van will then transfer to you. Thus you do not have a contract with the dealer to which the rights under the Sale of Goods Act applies.

In the case of HP it would be down to the HP company to get the dealer to put the van right. s10 of the Sale of Goods (Implied Terms) Act 1973 states that in a Hire Purchase agreement there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the agreement are of satisfactory quality. Satisfactory quality includes a principle that the van must be free of even minor defects. Thus it should not be damp so the Hire Purchase company is in breach of contract.

You could reject the caravan, your HP agreement ends and the HP company take issue with the dealer to get their money back.

The rights to reject you get under the Sale of Goods Act are different in the case of Hire Purchase. Rather than having the benefit of statutory protection you have to rely on general contract law principles. Under HP the right to reject goods is only lost when the contract is affirmed, and this requires a positive decision by you to carry on with the contract after having gained knowledge of the defect.

You write to the HP company to advise it of the damp and mention that "it is clearly not of satisfactory quality". Remind the HP company of its obligations under the 1973 regs. You ask the HP company to talk to the dealer to get it to agree to undertake the repairs at the dealer's costs otherwise you will "not affirm the HP agreement, the caravan will be rejected and the credit agreement will then be deemed to be at an end necessitating a repayment of all monies paid under that agreement" Use those words. The HP company will lean on the dealer. Your dealer needs to keep their HP company happy.

Courts tend to side with hirers in these cases.

If you get no joy from the HP company then advise them that you will ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to investigate. I reckon that they will decide in your favour on the facts you have given in this thread. A resolution may take some time...be patient.

This advice has been given on the basis of the information the OP has supplied. If the facts are any different, or there is any additional information the advice may be different. Each case turns on its facts.

All the best

Phil



Post last edited on 29/02/2012 11:51:32

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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


29/2/2012 at 3:43pm
 Location: Bury
 Outfit: Mardon caravan
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Please help, we just bought a caravan for cash off preloved, the lady said she didn't think there was any damp but on ripping up the carpet we've found there is, just near the door, can anybody tell us how to repair it, it's on the floor, it's very spongy


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29/2/2012 at 4:26pm
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If the floor is wet right by the door, it could be the door seal letting the rain in. Whats the rubber seal that goes all the way around the door frame like? If it is tatty you can buy replacement from any caravan shop.


29/2/2012 at 5:53pm
 Location: Derbyshire
 Outfit: Adria Altea 542DT
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I would like to thank everyone for the replies regarding my 'Damp Caravan From Dealer' post.

Many thanks to Phil (cwdc56768) for his very informative post. It's good to go back to the dealer with a knowledge of the Sale of Goods Act.

We are taking the van back this week for the dealer to take a look and I will let you all know the outcome.


29/2/2012 at 6:09pm
 Location: Lancashire
 Outfit: Caravan now Sold
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yes please tell us how get on,good luck to you.

-------------
the only silly question is the one you do not ask.


29/2/2012 at 9:18pm
 Location: Bury
 Outfit: Mardon caravan
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Thanks we just checked and it is the door seal that's caused the damage, not sure how to fix the floor, it's only about 3inches in diameter.



29/2/2012 at 9:21pm
 Location: Bury
 Outfit: Mardon caravan
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Thanks Tentz.


29/2/2012 at 11:26pm
 Location: lancs
 Outfit: Dethleffs 550 + volvo s80
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Moo Moo..... your first job is to stop the water getting in, new seals. Then you need to dry the van out, plenty of ventilation, you can then assess the extent of the damage.

If you need to replace a section of the floor,post a message on here and I will try and explain how I did mine, and no doubt you will get lots of other help too...

Keith...




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