Message Forums

We have been looking around for sites to go to for nxt year and reading reviews left on here which help us with our choice. But what I'm wondering is how some of these sites work out their pitch prices. Most sites say a pitch is per family  eg; 2 adults and 2 children ok but then you look at what they call children. Some say 2 to 14 yrs others may be 16. Most kids probably by the time they are 18 may find that holiday with mum and dad is not for them fair enough but why class the 14 to 16 teenagers as adults on a pitch price. So they want you to pay for " an extra adult" as some class it £2 per night over 7 nights = £14
Another thing that seems to creep up a lot is Awnnings are extra charge ok maybe not a huge price at first maybe £2 a night but add that up over 7 nights thats an extra £14 on your pitch. So what has started out as a reasonable price pitch in high season of around £ 22 is all slowly adding up to not such a reasonable price. There was 1 site we came across that said No Awnning and No anexes either. With familys like us who have a 16yr old that sleeps in his anexe where do they propose he sleeps he cant in the van as there is no room and besides even though ours is a 5 berth van the bunk bed is limited to a certain weight that most kids soon exceed and not from being overweight.
Yes charge for hook up I fully understand that as with pup tents, but an awning and anexe are very much part of the living area of your caravan.It seems to me as if sites can make up the extra charges very much as they like obviously because apart from their license requiremnts and fire regulations everything else is unregulated.

I'd be very intreasted to here back from site owners or managers who charge " the extras" as they call it to maybe explain their pricing. 

I think you have hit the nail on the head....site owners can charge what they like.

Fortunately I camp alone and apart from having to pay for two most of the time I don't get too badly clobbered...although the continual increase in campsite prices is gradually pricing me out of camping altogether...the costs go up, my pension doesn't!! If I had a family I would not be able to afford it at all.

I think the question has been asked of site owners before as to why they charge for 'extras' such as awnings. It doesn't cost the site any extra I am sure. I will be surprised if you get an answer.

As bob61 rightly says this one has been done before but as a site owner I will attempt to address your query.......

When answering I am only able to speak from 'our sites' point of view so this can not be taken as the 'norm' or general.

We charge for awnings if on grassed pitches as it takes a matter of days for the grass to be destroyed - we have in the past for folks to use breathable groundsheet but alas many simply will not.  The grass requires re seeding each season because of this, which costs considerable amounts of money, also and this may sound daft to you, but we have found that if bedroom annexes are used obviously the ground has been compacted so prior to it being seeded it requires at the least a rake and a man ( my hubby normally) to rake it, at worst a harrow, and the hire of that harrow, to break up the ground.  This all costs in terms of labour and product.  We do not charge for awnings on hardstand.

Specifically with regards bedroom annexes many sites have included in their licence that NO bedroom annexes are allowed - personally we could never understand this especially if you have tents onsite whats the difference?  but it comes down I believe with regards sleeping regulations in relation to caravans........???  There is not one common licence that they reproduce for all sites, each site is subject to different licencing conditions and regulations!!

We charge an adult rate from age 15 yrs, whilst we do not have children ourselves we do have our nephews who are not only the size of adults at 13yrs! but also use far more water, electricity etc than ever I could - and I am no slim jim!!!!  Likewise they also require cleaning up after a shower which with the amount of 'products' they use on themselves can be quite a task!!!!

Attributed to us, like you are continual random charges, non of which are 'your' problem I know, but we simply don't get it for free at the current time we pay council tax for our house we live onsite, business rates ( which went up 504% for us this year alone!) AND we pay for our bins to be emptied at the current rate for our council the rate for ONE bin of 1100 ltr capacity is £31.75 plus VAT - thats one bin, one empty over the 'peak' we have been spending in the region of £100 per week on getting bins emptied alone.

As our warden has recently stated quite literally everything we do onsite costs money and lots of it just some to note are as follows:

Cleaning products for those nice clean showers and loos
Toilet Rolls
Hand soap
Electricity - which includes the installation of cabling, hookupboxes, RCDs MCBs, meter installation, unit charge from electric board, meter rental at a daily rate - yep even when you close!, electrical testing by a qualified electrictian annually
Gas - if you live in our area, which runs the boilers at a cost of approx £60 per 40kg bottle - as you can imagine serving a toilet block you go thro some gas
Water - all on a meter which thankfully does not get charged at a daily rate as does the electric for simply having a metre
Septic tank emptys of which our park has 3 at an average cost of £300 per empty more for the chemical point.
The aforementioned, council tax, business rate and waste charges
The mortgage - yep we don't have it for nowt!
The fuel that runs the mower, strimmer. hand mower
The Grass Seed
That's the main expenses of running I think I may have forgotten some, BUT this does not include for the purchase of anything including in our case the ground works and installation for the hardstanding pitches, electric, water.
The concrete foundation and labour for each of the buildings, the buildings themselves and then the things that go in the buildings, the play equipment both out door and inside, the laundry facilities, in our case the fridge, freezer, microwave etc
This also doesn't include for any sundries, like when the fan decided to pack up in the loos, or the boiler broke, or the toilet seat broke, or the swing broke on the playpark rendering it useless nor the 100 tonne of stone required to install a 'quick' roadway round the field 2 summers back to allow campers access to their pitches in more comfort...........

Did I cover everything? 

Haaving been in accountancy for 30year I would never dispute the running costs of a camp site, having seen the cost of business (although never a campsite)  - but what I have noticed it that two separate sites in the same area, with similar facilites can charge vastly different rates.

Last summer we went to two different site a few miles apart - same council, and the price difference was over £8 per night - the cheaper one being the better one.   Has a lovely family shower room.   A free swimming pool which we used once, and other things that we didn't bother with.

As Jakers says it is the things that people don't think of that can mount up - repairing a fan, replacing a swing - lots of little things, which in themselves may not cost much, but add a few together and then it does add up.    Lost count of the times I have been preparing a set of accounts, and looked at things like the repairs total, and done a double take, and readded them up.

Quote: Originally posted by Camping nutcase on 04/9/2010

---

Haaving been in accountancy for 30year I would never dispute the running costs of a camp site, having seen the cost of business (although never a campsite)  - but what I have noticed it that two separate sites in the same area, with similar facilites can charge vastly different rates.

Last summer we went to two different site a few miles apart - same council, and the price difference was over £8 per night - the cheaper one being the better one.   Has a lovely family shower room.   A free swimming pool which we used once, and other things that we didn't bother with.

---

Quote: Originally posted by pecker on 04/9/2010

---

You missed out wages lol!  We did have breathable ground sheets  but over the last winter I left them in the front locker of the van and the mice had a comfy bed on cold nights. Also they were ok but after rain or with some pitches due to rain you often found the damp would seep through them. As for bedroom annexes our son has a camp bed in his so not such a huge body print is left on the floor but I do see your point.
I do understand that fuel prices have risen in the last 2yrs or so and understand that it will be reflected in pitch pricing although the whole sale price of gas has been cheap it wasnt passed on in any great way to the rest of us. 

---

I did miss out wages but thats cos we don't take any and our wardens work on a 'free pitch' in exchange for work/help basis.  My hubby worked for the 1st 3 years to support us and we do extra work outside to keep heads above and pitch prices as low as possible!  Madness = yep!

Calor gas has considerably increased in recent years as has the price of oil, 8 years ago we paid £12 per 40kg of gas we now pay £60 per 40kg, not having the option of mains gas here it certainly runs expensive, with a full site it take 7 days to go thro 40kgs on average.  Do you but calor gas for your van???  I'd say that was expensive.....

Jakers - Dont think you mentioned advertising! Customers look for your star rating and to get that you have to be a member of the Tourist Board. Plus without advertising people dont know you are there.

Also what about Insurance - costs of all types of insurance has risen 

The rateable values of all sites went up but some a lot more than others! 

Quote: Originally posted by Ang/Ken on 05/9/2010

---

Jakers - Dont think you mentioned advertising! Customers look for your star rating and to get that you have to be a member of the Tourist Board. Plus without advertising people dont know you are there.

Also what about Insurance - costs of all types of insurance has risen 

The rateable values of all sites went up but some a lot more than others! 

---

You are of course correct..... advertising and not just in the take out an advert in the mag form, what most don't realise that if you belong to any 'organisation' you have to pay to belong.  So yes in the tourist boards case we pay I think it's £160 for the tourist board man to come out and do our assessment, if we want anything additional we have to pay for that too...............we have just paid a stupid amount to be in the 'big sites' book and have a tiny ad, admittidly it's for two years but it's still multiple hundreds of pounds... plus VAT of course!

Insurance - yep forgot that although a pretty crucial and expensive element............

Rateable Values don't even get me started - this is one expense that has the potential to be the death of a nice campsite in wales for sure!

BUT and its a big BUT we have always tried to keep pitch fees as low as possible for a very good standard of park IMO we monitor everything each day for the cost to run and try and keep it as low as possible, it's unfortunate that there is this misconception that site owners some how have a licence to print money - this is simply not the case, well certainly in our case it isn't, maybe we make a rod for our own backs and make it 'look easy' I can appreciate from the outside looking in that it looks like a cushy number, the press doesn't help either!  but the reality is so different, I say to any customers scoffing at prices go use our amenity building then come round to our house and look at it you can surely see where the 'money' is!

Jakers normally answers this type of thread and I think we have to thank him/her for doing that. I am not sure I swallow all the issues, like having to continually re-seed the areas under awnings. I am sure the whole site needs constant maintenance and re-seeding from time to time but a tent spoils the grass possibly more than an awning. Someone in a tent only pays once whereas someone in a caravan pays for the caravan and then again for the awning, but I do see the need to keep the profits coming in somehow. I do stress 'profits' since no business can continually run at a loss and the owners and staff certainly won't be starving.

Having looked at the Brynawelon Touring Park before it does seem to be one of those that tries to keep fees down but as with the advice in all these threads, if you don't like the price protest with your feet and go to a cheaper site.

Unfortunately at this time especially, there are more campers than campsites so it's a sellers market and they can charge practically anything they want and there will always be someone able and willing to pay. 

The continual rises in prices are making it more and more difficult for those of us on fixed incomes to go camping and camping is gradually becoming a holiday for the wealthy. When you consider the price of tents nowadays (and I daren't even contemplate the price of caravans and motorhomes) camping is no longer a cheap holiday for the workers.

Quote: Originally posted by Bob61 on 05/9/2010

---

Jakers normally answers this type of thread and I think we have to thank him/her for doing that. I am not sure I swallow all the issues, like having to continually re-seed the areas under awnings. I am sure the whole site needs constant maintenance and re-seeding from time to time but a tent spoils the grass possibly more than an awning. Someone in a tent only pays once whereas someone in a caravan pays for the caravan and then again for the awning, but I do see the need to keep the profits coming in somehow. I do stress 'profits' since no business can continually run at a loss and the owners and staff certainly won't be starving.

Having looked at the Brynawelon Touring Park before it does seem to be one of those that tries to keep fees down but as with the advice in all these threads, if you don't like the price protest with your feet and go to a cheaper site.

Unfortunately at this time especially, there are more campers than campsites so it's a sellers market and they can charge practically anything they want and there will always be someone able and willing to pay. 

The continual rises in prices are making it more and more difficult for those of us on fixed incomes to go camping and camping is gradually becoming a holiday for the wealthy. When you consider the price of tents nowadays (and I daren't even contemplate the price of caravans and motorhomes) camping is no longer a cheap holiday for the workers.

---

I do contribute to these threads as I actually get sick of the incorrect perception that somehow, its all handed to us site owners for free and that we are simply some sort of underhanded robbers in it for a quick buck - which for us particularly is simply not the case.

You are right Bob61 the awning does only pitch on the grass once like the tent only pitches on the grass once, then another and another after that..............  reseeding/maintainence isn't ever now and then it's every season without fail!

As I have stated before in threads similar to this businesses are able to run at a loss each year indeed last year our 'profit' was the grand sum of £2000 ( this takes into account no development costs at all!) - not much to live on and possibly less than your fixed income Bob61   before you quote me that we are VAT registered ( the turnover for registering is £56,000 and no we don't turnover anywhere near that!) - you can voluntary register which is the sensible thing to do if developing like we have/are.

BUT your are also correct - us site owners are extremely rich ( mainly in land and buildings) but in our instance NOT cash ever until we sell the site, both myself and my husband would be far better off financially returning to our 'orginal' careers, indeed my husband did do that very thing when it was apparent the site would not support us!

I have absolutely no problem with disclosing what it 'really costs' to anyone and indeed have been approached by many of our customers who like the idea. There are pros and cons of it but the reality is it costs money and lots of it if you want to do it well.

All the best and hope you enjoy the rest of the season

Liz