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Subject Topic: Carver water heater query
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11/6/2011 at 1:27pm
 Location: Dunstable Beds
 Outfit: Elddis Shamal XL
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I've recently bought a van with a carver cascade 2 water heater. When I switch on at main control panel the red light comes on along with the green one. Also the switch next to the heater by the floor also glows green & red (even before I've switched it on...)

Not knowing too much about these I need to find out what the problem might be - I do have gas but don't really intend to use it for the water heater - seems a bit pointless if EHU is present. Do I have to connect the gas though before operating even though im going to use 240v - it seems like this is what the manual seems to be saying although I do think it also appears to be expecting quite a lot of prior knowledge....

Thanks

Steve


11/6/2011 at 3:09pm
 Location: Lichfield
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There should be two switches. The one with red, amber and green which is the gas switch and the other should just be a rocker switch (like the one at home) with a red light that indicates when switched on. This indicates that the electrical emersion heater is active. You don't need the gas connected to operate the emersion heater on an electric supply (EHU) but you can't use both gas and electric together only one power source of your choice.

On the gas supply, the green light indicates that it is working okay but if the red light illuminates it means there is no gas to fire it up (empty gas cylinder etc.). If the amber light illuminates I'm not absolutely sure but think that it means that the automatic igniter has failed to light the burner.



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11/6/2011 at 3:09pm
 Location: Lancashire
 Outfit: Caravan now Sold
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the lights are for the gas side of things.without being connected you will not light it.

-------------
the only silly question is the one you do not ask.


11/6/2011 at 3:17pm
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The red light is to indicate the gas burner has failed to light. If the gas is not connected then that's no surprise. Some older caravan water heaters did not run on EHU, they were gas only. If it does run on electric then you can switch the gas switch off.

The amber one indicates a low voltage. That always seemed pointless to me as most caravans have a volt meter elsewhere and if the battery is low the last thing you want is an extra light coming on.


11/6/2011 at 3:25pm
 Location: Dunstable Beds
 Outfit: Elddis Shamal XL
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Ok so with the gas NOT connected would I expect to see a green & red light together on the main zig control panel as well as green & red on the cascade switch beside the heater and would this mean it was all ok with 240v?


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11/6/2011 at 4:57pm
 Location: Dunstable Beds
 Outfit: Elddis Shamal XL
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I've uploaded 3 images to my gallery showing what I can see when just using electric.

I don't want to leave it on any longer as I dont want to damage anything - is this set up correctly when using 240v please?


11/6/2011 at 5:30pm
 Location: Lancashire
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using gas red and green together indicates the gas burner has failed to light in the 10 second period or a lack of gas supply. yellow and green lights on together indicates there is not enough voltage in the battery to light the burner. green light indicates the heater is on all the time and not related to the burner being on. if it will not light on 240 volts after pressing the reset then the element could have failed and needs replacing.

Post last edited on 11/06/2011 17:36:09

-------------
the only silly question is the one you do not ask.


11/6/2011 at 5:36pm
 Location: None Entered
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The Carver Cascade 2 is a 9 litre storage water heater, which when running on gas will heat the water to 65deg c in about 45 minutes. On 240V mains assuming it has this facility, the time can be somewhat longer or shorter depending on the wattage (630w 3amp to 840w 5amp) of the element fitted, you can use both gas and electric together for faster times.
To operate the gas there is a wall switch or a switch within a main control panel, either way both have three lights green, amber and red. When switched on the green lights, (water tank must be full, i.e. water coming from hot taps), if it stays on after about 8 seconds then the gas has lit and all is well. If the green is joined by the red then you may have a problem, but if the gas bottle has just been changed then air in the pipes will have to be bled through by repeating the above 2 or 3 times. Once lit, and it should light without any pops and bangs, (this would indicate it needs a service), the heater looks after itself and gives constant hot water. Any problems will cause it to shut down safely and show the red light. Forget the amber light, it's to show low voltage and won't light unless the voltage is so low the heater and everything else packed up long since, though you may notice it 'flash' as the switch is turned on or off.
The 240v immersion heater if fitted is totally separate, and lies behind a white plastic box on the inboard end of the water tank. It is controlled by a switch, often close by and at floor level, but again sometimes as part of a remote control panel. The switch has a red light to show it's 'on', not that it's working, this will be determined by the water getting hot. If it does not then it may have 'tripped' Two types exist, early circa 1990 are non-re-settable but are repairable. Later models have a Red button on the end of the plastic box which is sometimes behind a little flap. Switch off mains, and press to reset.
Other faults concerning the gas side very often come down to the 'Burner Module'. This handy little unit contains the burner, gas valve and all the electronics which control it and is accessible from behind the cover outside of the van. In the event things go wrong it's a 5 minute job to replace it, with a new or serviced exchange unit. One other safety device is a wax filled 'fusible' plug, this again is behind the outer cover and shows itself as a 13 mm nut set in the fins above the burner. The wax will melt if things get too hot allowing hot water from the tank to spray over the burner and put the flame out. This will render things safe but will require a new module because it's control circuitry is faulty. However given if the fuse 'blows' without the water apparently getting to hot then replacing the plug will be sufficient. The point to note here is that over time the wax in the plug degrades or the threads leak, at the very least allowing water to seep onto the burner causing it to rust and eventually will still require replacement of the whole burner module.
Further problems that come to light in spring is the discovery of frost damage to the water tank, the non-return valve which is part of the cold water inlet and other plastic fittings. Failing to drain the heater when there is a chance of temperatures dropping below freezing can be very expensive to repair and should be avoided by removing the drain bung and allowing the heater to drain completely. Later models have a valve above the drain hole in the top left corner of the flue cowl, these have a 'toggle' showing that when turned a ¼ in any direction will allow air into the tank and assist the draining. Older models still have the valve but the flue cowl needs to be removed and the valve end pulled to open it, in this case opening all taps in the van will do much the same thing. It is most important that the drain bung is then only placed back into the hole and not screwed in, any water left in the system can then drain away.
Frost damage to the tank will be obvious by the leaking water from the damaged seal, the damaged non-return valve quite often will prevent water coming from the hot taps although the cold water flow will be fine. Other fittings are often cracked by the pressure of the frozen water and will leak on refilling the system.


12/6/2011 at 3:56pm
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Excellent post above.I had a problem with mine.The water would get hot no trouble on EHU but not on battery/gas.The green light would stay on but no hot water.It turned out to be the burner which was shot and a pile of rust.New burner fitted,happy days!


12/6/2011 at 4:02pm
 Location: Nottingham
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LOL I was just going to say Gary from Arc systems will be along soon to help!  A star!

-------------
Regards Robin


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12/6/2011 at 11:09pm
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You've got the gas on as well, (albeit it's 'failed' hence the green and red light), the 'fused switched spur' with the single red neon light is for the electric heating.

The rocker switch next to the spur, with green and red light showing, is a remote on/off switch (with it's own set of duplicate warning lights), this simply switches the gas heating on and off via the main control brown box with three lights.


13/6/2011 at 10:50pm
 Location: Dunstable Beds
 Outfit: Elddis Shamal XL
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Ok I get it now!

Have just tried immersion heater again using just the IH switch but no hot water. Have also felt the side of the tank and it's still stone cold, no noise coming from it all ( even though I keep imagining that I do!!!)

Also the volt meter fails to move even a fraction when I flick the switch suggesting that it's not drawing any current. I've checked the glass fuse on the zig panel but all looks ok. Only thing I haven't done is change the domestic 5amp fuse on the IH switch itself but I imagine that is just for the little red light?

Is there anything else I can check or is it just that the element has blown? As noted earlier the red button the front of the tank doesn't appear to depress so unsure if I'm actually resetting it or not...

If it's the element where can I get a replacement and can I do it myself?


13/6/2011 at 11:54pm
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You will feel the red button reset if it's tripped, if not, then it will still move down a tiny bit but you won't feel the click as it resets.

The 5A fuse is for the element but if the red neon is on there is nothing wrong with the fuse.

The element can be tested and if it required a 5A fuse it should be 1997 on and the resistance across the element should be 64 ohms.
The elements do fail but a more likely problem is the normal temperature stat has not reset itself after the last time it switched off, if this is the case then it will have to be replaced and I have these if it does prove faulty


14/6/2011 at 1:14pm
 Location: Dunstable Beds
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Thanks for that

The red button is most definitley protruding from the facia but theres no movement when I try to press it, could it be that its come out of alignment with something behind the facia & hence is just pressing against plastic?

How would I go about testing the resistance on the element? - I can get hold of a multimeter but need to know where to apply it to get a correct reading.

If that fails how much would it be for a new temperature stat or element & how easy or hard is it to fit please?

thanks

Steve

 



19/6/2011 at 5:48pm
 Location: Dunstable Beds
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Still not got anything working on 240v, I've taken the front cover off the immersion heater (white plastic cover) - all connections appear to be intact & tidy although I've no idea how to test it. I've also pressed the reset button which results in no change.

Can anyone offer advise as to how I could test the element & related cables / connections.

If a new element is required I'd like to get an idea of cost please as well.

thanks

Steve


19/6/2011 at 6:07pm
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OK, really stupid question, but it wouldn't be the first time someone has made the mistake of confusing the 12 volt system with the 240 volt system. Do you have the EHU connected and is it all switched on and working?



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