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Subject Topic: Trigano or Pennine???
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16/4/2009 at 5:38pm
 Location: north wales
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The thread was about a trailer tent that had been erected wrong and the picture isn't available.  I don't have a folding camper anymore but I can't remember there being many welds on the bed support brackets, except a plate holding a bolt on which the arm swivelled on.  Its obviously not caused any problems or we would be hearing some stories.

Triganos are basic compared to pennines, but as toad 1 states camping is an outdoor hobby.  If I was going back to getting  a tt/fc I would go for  a camplet.  I haven't seen one in the flesh but they look well made, light and easy to erect.  It would be attractive to tow with my clio rather than my wife's disco.

Brian



16/4/2009 at 5:49pm
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Well, as I say, I've never heard of any of them breaking, but the poles in between the centre ridge and the ridge at the camper end of each bed are removable, and held in place by white plastic end caps with a hook on. The hook goes through a white plastic cap on the side ridges, and the whole thing is held in place with a length of webbing with a popper on. Similarly, on the awning, the corner joints are not welded steel but molded plastic.

Probably fine, but not in my opinion a patch on the old conway ruddy-great-steel-bolt joints. Much fiddlier and slower to put up as well.


16/4/2009 at 6:06pm
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No, the picture is no longer available.

As far as I remember, the damage was indeed caused by folding in the beds in the wrong order, but that is no excuse. I have tried to do that before - actually on a Trigano Chantilly as it happens - and the mistake was not particularly obvious until the whole thing was down and clearly didn't sit right. In that situation, the strain was taken by the brackets which didn't seem to be phased at all. The photos - which you can't see any more - made it clear that this was a faulty TT.

I quite agree that bad welding is unlikely to cause problems on bed brackets, so I guess it comes down to priorities; I don't really care about decor and finish, what I want is straight lines, good welds and robust engineering.
Now, if you are happy with good-enough engineering (and that isn't a criticism - if it works, it works), and you do care about decor and finish, then you would obviously make a different choice to me.

I too like the Camp-Lets - they seem to be superbly engineered and are a really neat solution with all sorts of advantages.
One point though - don't be taken in by all that "erects in 2 minutes" guff. Yes, it only takes 2 mins to unfold the body, but it only takes 2 mins to unfold any trailer tent you care to mention. It's the pegging out which takes the time, which takes the same amount of time no matter whether you have a Sunncamp or a Camp-Let.

For my money, the real advantage is that you don't have to muck about erecting awning frames and zipping on canvas when stopping overnight, which really is a time saver. But again, do bear in mind that this is effectively because it doesn't have much of an awning. If you want an awning the same size as a Holiday 400SE or a Santale or a Chantilly then you still have to a)buy the uber expensive Royal, and b) erect it and peg it out just like everyone else.

The models which genuinely only take minutes to erect and get some sort of living space going are the Combi-Camp, Raclet Santale & Allegra, Sunncamp Holiday 240Duo, Cabanon Venus and the various FCs.


16/4/2009 at 6:41pm
 Location: north wales
 Outfit: Sprite Quattro FB
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IWhen the question is asked - how good should anything be engineered, the answer is good enough to do the job.  The Japanese are masters at it, ( albeit their strategies many years ago were founded on the advice of british and american quality engineers ).  Nothing should be made to unnecessarily close tolerances and if cheaper designs can do the same job then that is the best way to go.  This is the reason why so many things are put together with push-fit fastening rather than screws and bolts ( at least in mass production ). 

It is partly the problem with british caravans - the public buy the vans that have the best looks and equipment.  I suppose thats all part of the joy of ownership, but where German vans lag in equipment they excel in sound construction and lack of damp problems.

Brian

 



16/4/2009 at 7:18pm
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Absolutely. The theory books still haunt me from my university days!

Unfortunately, what tends to happen is that accountants get hold of the process and hi-jack it. A really good example is Ford in the early 90s. Cars like the Escort Mk.3 had a design life of 20-25 years and were built to appropriate tolerances and quality. The Escort Mk.4 was built on the basis that people would buy it no matter what, and as a result it was one of the most squalid and miserable turds of a car to be built anywhere ever.

Personally, I think if a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well. After all, how difficult is it to build something well in the first place as compared to fixing it when it goes wrong? The Camp-Lets exude attention to detail from every pore, and you will see 40-50 year examples looking hale and hearty. When was the last time you saw one of the original dome tents?

Charlie


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16/4/2009 at 7:48pm
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Quote: Originally posted by racletcharlie on 16/4/2009
Well, as I say, I've never heard of any of them breaking, but the poles in between the centre ridge and the ridge at the camper end of each bed are removable, and held in place by white plastic end caps with a hook on. The hook goes through a white plastic cap on the side ridges, and the whole thing is held in place with a length of webbing with a popper on. Similarly, on the awning, the corner joints are not welded steel but molded plastic.

Probably fine, but not in my opinion a patch on the old conway ruddy-great-steel-bolt joints. Much fiddlier and slower to put up as well.



The side poles between the ridges don't take any stress - they simply keep the ridge poles the correct distance apart and stop the canvas sagging at the sides. The webbing with the popper on is just a safety precaution in case the side pole becomes detached during the erection process - stops the pole landing on your head!

Regarding the 'plastic' corner sections for the awning - these seem to be exactly the same design as used on quite expensive caravan awnings - Isabella, for example. The have been used for years so presumably
have stood the test of time.

So, just in case anyone is put off by previous comments - don't be. Pennines - and Conways - are great. They aren't perfect, but they are the best folding campers you can get.

Al


16/4/2009 at 9:48pm
 Location: Herefordshire
 Outfit: pennine pathfinder 2003
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For me, having the entire body of a camper and awning held together by nasty little plastic brackets with 'snap me' written all over them is a recipe for heartache in 10 years time.


You what ?? my pennine has stood up to all manner of weather and no snap at all. Pennines are well made and will last a lot more than 10 years.

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16/4/2009 at 11:07pm
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No insult intended to any Pennine owners! I'm sure they will last for decades if looked after, and indeed you see 80s examples all over the place in very good nick. All I am saying is that the engineering solutions chosen by Conway are ones which look more robust.
And I don't like plastic.

Charlie


17/4/2009 at 8:39am
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Don't want to prolong this more than necessary, but are you comparing Conways to Pennines built before Pennine started to build both?

Al


17/4/2009 at 10:39am
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Sort of. Pennine build the things perfectly well, and they carried on making the connaumatic conways for a few years, and I think they were the absolute pinnacle of Conway design.

I know the plastic bracket thing is a detail, and I know that once the FC is up you couldn't care less whether it unfolded or slid or whatever, and I know that once up you would struggle to find a lot of £20k caravans which are as beautifully built as a Pennine.
It just offends my sensibilities that the Pennine Group had two possible erection systems which they owned the rights to, and they chose the manifestly inferior of the two because it was easier to make.
Its a personal thing, a personal opinion. If you preferred the Pennmatic system in the first place, then no doubt you will be fine with it all.
But I wish that they continued to make the nicer solution.
Charlie


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17/4/2009 at 11:05am
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Hi again Charlie,

I think, like everything else, what suits one might not suit someone else. I have read a few reports, for example, where there have been problems with the Conway sliding beds sticking. Indeed someone had to resort to using a hammer and some brute force in order to be able to close the unit so that it could be towed home. Also read recently of canvas being ripped after being caught in the sliding mechnism somehow. Pennine have always had the fold over system, more recently with the gas struts, which make life a lot easier! Because of the simplicity of this well proven method the problems associated with the Conway sliding system don't exist. Why manufacture something with possible problems, more expensive, more labour intensive, etc when there is an already existing perfectly satisfactory system in use?

So I'm afraid your comment that the Pennine Group had two possible erection systems which they owned the rights to, and they chose the manifestly inferior of the two because it was easier to make doesn't really hold water. My personal view of course

Al


17/4/2009 at 12:31pm
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Hehehehehehe! Touche!

Yes, all right, fair enough. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

BTW, did I say that I also disapprove of velcro as a means of fastening tent sides down? And that I don't care how much Pennine call it "Coffee and Cream", the colour scheme is exactly the same as my 1983 "poo brown and beige" Conway cruiser?

What I regret is that Pennine have abandoned the very thing which made Conway a distinct brand. Not only that, but they still manufacture the Connaumatic parts as spares! When I win the lottery, I am going to pay Pennine a shed load to make me a brand new Crusader with acrylic awning and silver sides, but with the slidey bed system.

BTW, you should NEVER have to resort to using a hammer to get a Conway down. If it sticks and you can't get it down, the instruction manual is quite clear on the subject. You take the canvas off (which is a pain but do-able), and all the tension in the system subsides and even quite badly bent bed frames can then be slid in with no probs. My 80s Cruiser has a HUGE kink in one of the sliders (not made by me) and still goes up and down with a bit of sympathy and understanding.


17/4/2009 at 1:55pm
 Location: Kent (on East Sussex border)
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We bought an early/mid 80's Conway Cruiser 11 years ago to replace our Camplet (which was brown and beige), the Conway was brick and cream in colour (I thought at the time it was better than the brown and beige (how I hate that colour scheme - whatever pocessed Pennine to resurrect those colours).

The slide out system was very good, I seem to remember my husband bellowing the canvas just before sliding each bed out.  Must admit I was surprised when we decided to get another camper last summer that this system has been done away with - how times have changed.

After then going onto a caravan, then selling that and a few years later going to a tent, we are now back with a folding camper again.

 



17/4/2009 at 2:53pm
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Speaking as someone who has a 2008 poo brown and cream Pathfinder - may I say that I love it! Very practical and reminds me of a Pullman we owned in the eighties

BTW Pennine must have sold the 2008 colour well as they have kept it for 2009.

One thing I wish Pennine would do and that is bring back the Conway hardtop versions.

Al


17/4/2009 at 5:00pm
 Location: Herefordshire
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BTW Pennine must have sold the 2008 colour well as they have kept it for 2009

or she says tongue in cheek "they still have a lot of the canvas left" (jan ducks and runs fast)



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17/4/2009 at 5:01pm
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I thought that after I had written it

Al



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