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Subject Topic: What went wrong? Post Reply Post New Topic
16/8/2012 at 9:34pm
 Location: Hertfordshire
 Outfit: Various tents
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Hi all, just got back from Cornwall in our Pullmann 535 FC.

On arrival after a 7 hour drive I was expecting to find a nicely charged battery in the FC as we did not book EHU. To my dismay I found it 100% dead, no movement on the gauge and no light or water pump.

Luckily they let me stretch the hook up across the field for a day to recharge but I can't figure out what went wrong. The only difference this trip was that the fridge 12v switch was on and I left the car-off-van switch set to van although this does not connect the fridge to the battery.

I cant see how the battery was drained at the same time as being connected to the car??

I will contact pennine for a full wiring diagram as the block-diagram in the manual is useless for fault tracing. I have proved that there is no current drain on the battery if nothing is in use and putting the fridge 12v switch on does nothing when not connected to the car so I can't see ow it drained the battery.

Luckily it does not seem to have damaged the nearly new battery.


16/8/2012 at 9:57pm
 Location: BRISTOL
 Outfit: Kampa Frinton 5. Litchfield Montana 6.
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hi davek0974,
the van battery is second in line for charging, and with the fridge on ... the fridge prob took all the charge for it'self...you would only 'top up' at the very best from the car, a low battery would be hardly touched.
regards
don

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I sure do like the UK summers :) :)


17/8/2012 at 12:41am
 Location: North Yorkshire
 Outfit: Sterling Europa 460 NT
View dianebb72's Profile View Profile   Reply to dianebb72 Reply   Quote dianebb72 Quote  
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I thought the switch should be set at car when connected to the car and switched to van when on hookup. That's how it is in our van

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-x- Diane -x-

May 13 - Cala Gogo, St Cyprien (didn't go, hubby too ill to travel)
May 14 Ranc Davaine
August 14 Les Sablons
August 13 - Camping Playa Brava, Pals


17/8/2012 at 4:20pm
 Location: Hertfordshire
 Outfit: Various tents
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The book only recommends setting the switch to car when using the car battery only, when driving it says to set it to off, but then how does the fridge get cold?

I have sent for a full digram of the wiring so I can figure it out.

I have a theory that the relay which turns on the fridge supply from the car may not be working or wired right and instead of connecting the fridge to the car it is connecting it to the leisure battery and flattening it. As I said that's a guess only until I can see a diagram I can't really say more.

There should be plenty of current for charging and cooling the fridge, it's a Landrover with a large alternator and battery as standard.


17/8/2012 at 10:17pm
 Location: Warwickshire
 Outfit: VW Autosleeper Trident
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You can find a wiring diagram in this link

http://www.sargentltd.co.uk/PSU_2005_-_Pennine.pdf

pieface



-------------
Life begins, when you get one.


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17/8/2012 at 10:50pm
 Location: The Republic of Bethnal Green
 Outfit: 2010 Conway Crusader
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Fridge should be wired direct from car only when ignition is on battery should run from car battery i would check car wiring and fuses also check the grey plug make sureall connections are clean and tight

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If its Too loud your Too OLD
Russ Boy


17/8/2012 at 11:50pm
 Location: Warwickshire
 Outfit: VW Autosleeper Trident
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This article ( not mine by the way) points out the differences between early & late 12S plugs & sockets. It might be worth having a look at how your landy & camper are wired.

 

Up to October 1997 and the introduction of new wiring standards for caravans and leisure vehicles, all the 12S system (with the exception of pin 1, yellow, reverse) relied on one heavy wire (pin 3, white) for the earth return. Pins 5 (brown) and 7 (black) were unused. Since EN1648-1, the central pin 7 (black) has been allocated as the refrigerator earth return and pin 2 (blue) is now redundant (previously battery charging circuit). These changes roughly coincide with the introduction of new larger fridge/freezers which, naturally, draw more current.

Pin 7 is an extended male, segmented pin in the plug and acts as the ‘lead’ to guide the plug into the socket. As such, it is the one pin most likely to suffer damage in use. This, coupled with the higher current draw and the smaller cross sectional area of the wire is causing voltage drop, higher resistance, heat build up and consequently, melting plugs and/or sockets.


You could change your double socket system on car and caravan to one of three continental 13 pin plug systems (either Jaeger or Feder/West Multicon). This, however, would entail changing other caravans and trailers that you may want to tow (though the Feder/West Multicon sockets will accept a standard 12N plug in the centre),and would prove expensive.

Alternatively, you could do a minor modification to the caravan 12S plug wiring. As pin 5 is unused, it is possible to link pin 7 to pin 5 and (provided the brown wire is earthed in the towing vehicle) share the load between both. Additionally, as pin 2 is now unused (though still probably connected to the split charge relay) the same can be done with the feed by linking pin 6 to pin 2.

The advantages are obvious. The combination of 2 cores gives a greater CSA than called for in the legislation and the load (feed and return) is shared by 4 pins instead of two. There will be less voltage drop, less resistance and less heat build up. It is a relatively simple DIY alteration and is inexpensive.

I would recommend using 28/0.30 (17.5 amp) cable for the linking wire

Supplementary to the above, tests performed by students on the last 3 NTTA courses have produced an improvement in the voltage drop to the fridge of 1.1 volts when using the two links as described.

Pieface



-------------
Life begins, when you get one.


18/8/2012 at 12:13pm
 Location: Hertfordshire
 Outfit: Various tents
View davek0974's Profile View Profile   Reply to davek0974 Reply   Quote davek0974 Quote  
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Thanks pieface, that link held all the secrets needed.

It's a clear diagram and fully explains the function of the switches etc, it seems that to charge the leisure battery, the switch can be in ANY position - off, van or car so the manual has recommended the OFF position as it safely isolates all van circuits - sensible.

There is absolutely NO connection from the fridge 12v to the leisure battery, so It appears we have a wiring error caused by erroneous alterations to the van.

I have a charging relay in the rear of the Landrover and will verify all pin connections on the 12s socket soon but even a wiring error there will not allow the fridge to drain the leisure battery UNLESS the pin 6 (fridge +) is shorted to pin 4 (vehicle battery +) AND pin 4 is NOT connected to the vehicle battery at all. This error would allow a current route from the leisure battery, up through the faulty 12s, and back down to the fridge.

One query I can't fathom out is that it appears we have a relay under our sink unit, where the gas taps are, but this is not shown on the diagram, there is the EMC relay but that is shown as being internal to the charger/power unit.


18/8/2012 at 2:52pm
 Location: The Republic of Bethnal Green
 Outfit: 2010 Conway Crusader
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I cant help with th last query but your fridg should NOT be connected to the leisure battery only to the car i suggest you dissconnect the leisure battery then run the car see if you are getting power to the leads if no you check the socket on car

-------------
If its Too loud your Too OLD
Russ Boy


18/8/2012 at 3:18pm
 Location: Hertfordshire
 Outfit: Various tents
View davek0974's Profile View Profile   Reply to davek0974 Reply   Quote davek0974 Quote  
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Yeah, I'm going to check it all through, still can't figure out the relay under the sink though.


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18/8/2012 at 3:36pm
 Location: Warwickshire
 Outfit: VW Autosleeper Trident
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The external relay on our Fiesta is mounted under the charger/power unit. The wiring colour code seems to identify it as the Charging relay.

Pieface



-------------
Life begins, when you get one.


19/8/2012 at 8:59am
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: None Entered
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When we had our towbar installed we were asked if we wanted 1 or 2 plugs.  They explained that one of the plugs was for lights and one was for  leaving the fridge on during your journey.  I don't know if the number of plugs make any difference to your set up.


19/8/2012 at 10:37am
 Location: Hertfordshire
 Outfit: Various tents
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Yes we have the two plug setup, 12s & 12n

I think the relay could be the charge one, will check the wire colours.



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