Message Forums

Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 05/9/2013Good few years back, I worked at a motorhome & caravan sales company,I remember that they had 2 swift gazelle 6 birth m/h`s.They were used for tv crews etc,both had towbars on them,One was sold,few weeks later it came back, they said we can see day light through the floor at the rear of the van!we asked them what the hell have you been doing?replie."we have been towing the car"These vans have a large hang over from the rear axle, you cant tow a car with this m/h,only a small trailer.They got a nice repair bill.had to sort the chassis and reseal the floor to the body etc.They had been towing a car on a single axle trailer, and all the bounce on the towbar bend the chassis.

'Thanks Symbolife, just a shame that my slant on things tends to kill a post stone dead...... truth hurts i suppose

mick'

Its not the truth - just your opinion.

We use my lpg converted clio to get to work. I work days and my wife nights so we both use the same car.  She uses her disco to do a few miles around town and to get to the stables.  We use it to tow our caravan and also to tow our horse trailer. 

It is a bit infantile calling caravans sheds as motorhomes are basically the same thing mounted on a van chassis.

"Towing dollies" and A-frames are totally different bits of kit...

I think you'll find that "towing dollies" are only legal for recovery work and are therefore not for general "transportation" use...

(..as the rear wheels of the car are in contact with the road(and they have brakes), I believe that they must be operational...)..

I think there's new regs' coming out soon(ish) which will effect A-frames but how much clearer it will make it, I have no idea...

Well others seem to think otherwise..

The  "Trailer and Towing Advisory Service" says this:.

"A towing dolly may be equipped with brakes, but only on it's own wheels, the other axle of the vehicle mounted on it will not have operable brakes - so by definition it is not a braked trailer - and should never exceed either 750 kg, or ½ the weight of the towing vehicle, or the towing vehicle manufacturers stated unbraked towing capacity, whichever is least.

Legislation does allow for the recovery of a vehicle, from a position where it constitutes a hazard, to a safe-haven. However, to proceed beyond the first safe-haven becomes transport, as opposed to recovery. In this instance a car transporter trailer is required, whereby the entire vehicle is carried upon the trailer (or towed vehicle) the trailers axle(s) being equipped with the requisite brakes."

http://www.ttas.co.uk/towsafe.cartransport.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and the following from  http://www.towitall.co.uk/faq/4.aspx

 "There are strict regulations on braked trailers and, whilst a braked ‘A’ frame attached to a towed car constitutes a braked trailer, it is not legal for transportation as it cannot comply with EC71/320. With car dollies, the situation is somewhat different.Under regulation 83 of the Road Vehicles (construction & Use) Regulations 1986 (SI.1986/1078) Amending Regulations, a car dolly, with a car in place, will be considered as two trailers. This is legal for recovery but, under the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 (Schedule 6) the combination is limited to 40 mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 20 mph elsewhere

Note that there is a very specific difference between recovery and transportation. Recovery is the removal of a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. It does not include removing a rotor arm (for instance) and travelling the length and breadth of the country.The police are well aware of the difference due to the regulations covering Tachographs and Operators Licences. Recovery vehicles are exempt."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And this from the AA....

 http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/general-advice/towing-advice-what-you-need-to-know.html

Lengthy but hopefully relevant...

Oops! sorry, we crossed posts/edits..

So if brakes are fitted,they need to be operational?..yes?l(..and up to a given/specific standard),so how are the brakes on the rear wheels of a car that's being dragged on a dolly being operated then?...they're not are they...

Quote: Originally posted by pepe63 on 06/9/2013

Well others seem to think otherwise..

The  "Trailer and Towing Advisory Service" says this:.

"A towing dolly may be equipped with brakes, but only on it's own wheels, the other axle of the vehicle mounted on it will not have operable brakes - so by definition it is not a braked trailer - and should never exceed either 750 kg, or ½ the weight of the towing vehicle, or the towing vehicle manufacturers stated unbraked towing capacity, whichever is least.

Legislation does allow for the recovery of a vehicle, from a position where it constitutes a hazard, to a safe-haven. However, to proceed beyond the first safe-haven becomes transport, as opposed to recovery. In this instance a car transporter trailer is required, whereby the entire vehicle is carried upon the trailer (or towed vehicle) the trailers axle(s) being equipped with the requisite brakes."

http://www.ttas.co.uk/towsafe.cartransport.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and the following from  http://www.towitall.co.uk/faq/4.aspx

 "There are strict regulations on braked trailers and, whilst a braked ‘A’ frame attached to a towed car constitutes a braked trailer, it is not legal for transportation as it cannot comply with EC71/320. With car dollies, the situation is somewhat different.Under regulation 83 of the Road Vehicles (construction & Use) Regulations 1986 (SI.1986/1078) Amending Regulations, a car dolly, with a car in place, will be considered as two trailers. This is legal for recovery but, under the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 (Schedule 6) the combination is limited to 40 mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 20 mph elsewhere

Note that there is a very specific difference between recovery and transportation. Recovery is the removal of a broken down vehicle to a place of safety. It does not include removing a rotor arm (for instance) and travelling the length and breadth of the country.The police are well aware of the difference due to the regulations covering Tachographs and Operators Licences. Recovery vehicles are exempt."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And this from the AA....

 http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/general-advice/towing-advice-what-you-need-to-know.html

"An A-frame or recovery dolly can only be used legally to recover a vehicle which has broken down.

If you tow a car that hasn't broken down using an A-frame or dolly then the law treats the combination as a trailer which must meet the appropriate braking and lighting rules.

Trailers below 750kg don't have to be fitted with braking systems, but if a braking system is fitted to a trailer of any weight – as is clearly the case for a car – then the braking system must operate correctly. This is not possible for normal systems fitted to cars, particularly the brake servo, which would not be working unless the engine was running.

Trailer regulations also require the fitting and use of a secondary coupling system to ensure that the trailer is stopped automatically if the main coupling separates while the trailer is in motion or, in the case of trailers, up to a maximum mass of 1,500kg that the drawbar is prevented from touching the ground and the trailer has some residual steering."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lengthy but hopefully relevant...

Oops! sorry, we crossed posts/edits..

So if brakes are fitted,they need to be operational?..yes?l(..and up to a given/specific standard),so how are the brakes on the rear wheels of a car that's being dragged on a dolly being operated then?...they're not are they...

---

Post last edited on 06/09/2013 12:59:32

---

But again, that is being supplied with an A frame, not a towing dolly.

Show us a suppler of "towing dollies", that also provide the, necessary,  assisted braking system as you've shown in your link........

These are the first three suppliers of "dollies" that come up when I google(okay "Bing")

http://www.phoenixtrailer.co.uk/towingdollies.php

http://www.ukcardolly.co.uk/car1towing_dolly.html

http://www.towdollies.com/

..and not one of those mentions anything about supplying or the need for, additional assisted braking for the towed vehicle.

Silverwood..Yeah, a bit of lively discussion does make a nice change from some of the "Aldi camping chair bargain" type threads 

I'm pretty much a live'n'let live type o' chap..

...but I'm sure we've all seen,"home made" dollies, tow bars, bumpers,rear scooter racks etc...but just because we've them or know someone who uses one, doesn't always make them legal or safe.(..and in many cases even the decent bits of kit are overloading the vehicle/axle )..

Personally, if the likes of the Trailer & Towing Advisory Service and the AA, Et al say that dollies are for recovery only, then that's good enough for me...

I'm out..

Quote: Originally posted by Jack+Jon on 06/9/2013

---

It always amuses me the way cost is cited. Anybody who can afford a £60k m/h & the lifestyle to go with can afford to stay on campsites if they want to so why boast about how they 'save money' by not paying out for campsites?

---