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Subject Topic: electric car are they economical
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14/7/2022 at 10:04pm
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Quote: Originally posted by bessie500 on 14/7/2022




It does depend very much on what type of journeys people do. I would probably only need to charge away from home just a few times a year, mainly when I'm on holiday. That is probably the only time I do more than 150 miles in a day, and I no longer commute anyway. Range wouldn't be any kind of issue for me, although for others it might be. The main issue for me is purchase price. I need an estate (type) car that can tow my caravan, and has a high driving position because of back problems, and I have an absolute maximum budget of £1,000 on top of what my current car would fetch, and it's 13 years old. Try getting a suitable EV for that. If you could find one, in all probability its batteries would be knackered.





May be in 13 years time you can get one that fits your budget, At the moment they are too new for that

Bessie



Yes, that is exactly my point Bessie. If I'm even still around in 13 years time, which of course I hope to be, it is fairly unlikely I will still be driving. However, my sister-in-law is around 13 years older than me and she still drives so who knows.

If I was going to change my current car it would probably be more like 13 months time than 13 years, but then all being well my current car will last a good few more years yet and I will hang onto it for as long as it does. It is is "only" 13 years old and my previous Volvo is still on the road and that is now 22 years old.


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14/7/2022 at 10:20pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Mitchamitri on 14/7/2022

BUT....I believe car prices have actually gone up relative to income year on year. As someone said earlier in this thread we could see a world where car ownership (as in having a car permanently in your possession) is seen as quite unusual.



Yes I think you are right, car prices have gone up relative to income, but then so have most essentials. My food bill when I was a bus driver back in the 1970s took up about 10% of my income, but my food bill today would take up nearer 40% of a bus driver's income. If anything I also eat less today than I did back then as otherwise I'd be about 30 stone as I'm far less active being as I'm retired.

It may have been me you referred to that said that car ownership may one day be quite unusual. In some ways it is illogical when you think about it when you consider that the average private car spends 95% of its life parked somewhere, whether it be at home, at work, outside a supermarket, or somewhere else. It only spends 5% of its time being actually driven. It's why so many roads today are clogged up with parked cars.



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via mobile 25/7/2022 at 3:37pm
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Nothing new about questioning car ownership. My cousins, now long retired to Devon, lived all their working lives (40 years) in London. They didn’t ever own a car, 50+ years ago, because they had excellent bus & tube services for getting to work, shops, concerts etc and they hired a car for holidays. (In Devon now, a car is essential.)
Similarly, they never owned a washing machine or tumble dryer - everything got left at the local laundromat & collected later. Again, not something they have ready access to in rural retirement.
So I agree car ownership may decline in cities with good transport infrastructure late into the evening but in small towns & rural areas with no trains, and buses that stop early evening, a car will be needed most days.
Car clubs may be an alternative especially if the car can be left charging when not “booked” to be used.

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2024 = 20 sites / 41 nights. 2023 = 9/23. 2022 = 13/35. 2021 = 11/29. 2020 = 4/20. 2019 = 13/35. 2018 = 20/33. 2017 = 10/22. 2016 = 19/33. 2015 = 15 sites / 27 nights. Didn't count 1976 to 2014.


25/7/2022 at 5:01pm
 Location: East Herts
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Quote: Originally posted by Fiona W on 25/7/2022
Nothing new about questioning car ownership. My cousins, now long retired to Devon, lived all their working lives (40 years) in London. They didn’t ever own a car, 50+ years ago, because they had excellent bus & tube services for getting to work, shops, concerts etc and they hired a car for holidays. (In Devon now, a car is essential.)
Similarly, they never owned a washing machine or tumble dryer - everything got left at the local laundromat & collected later. Again, not something they have ready access to in rural retirement.
So I agree car ownership may decline in cities with good transport infrastructure late into the evening but in small towns & rural areas with no trains, and buses that stop early evening, a car will be needed most days.
Car clubs may be an alternative especially if the car can be left charging when not “booked” to be used.



I am inclined to think that may well be what happens Fiona. Electric vehicles lend themselves perfectly to the Car Club type of operation as they can just be left plugged in until they are needed. I can see them as an additional form of "public transport" in areas not well served by buses and trains.


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25/7/2022 at 7:33pm
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I think car clubs may not be ideal with EVs. Rapid chargers shorten battery life and require very large power supplies, larger than most buildings will have.

So they will have to be charged slowly. This means any use must be carefully planned in advance to ensure the car you have booked has sufficient charge for your usage period.

On top of that, power suppliers may want to interrupt charging if the grid capacity is compromised as can happen with renewable energy sources.

So the level of charge when the car is returned and the amount required by the next user will require careful management and may cause delays.

With fossil fuel you simply pick the car up and fill up as required.


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via mobile 26/7/2022 at 9:47am
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Interesting & relevant new thread in the Towing forum about towing experience with an EV.

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2024 = 20 sites / 41 nights. 2023 = 9/23. 2022 = 13/35. 2021 = 11/29. 2020 = 4/20. 2019 = 13/35. 2018 = 20/33. 2017 = 10/22. 2016 = 19/33. 2015 = 15 sites / 27 nights. Didn't count 1976 to 2014.


26/7/2022 at 2:26pm
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""""I think car clubs may not be ideal with EVs. Rapid chargers shorten battery life and require very large power supplies, larger than most buildings will have."""""

The assumption behind this statement is that cars will need charging so often as they do now, that battery and motor technology won't improve, and neither will infrastructure. Apart from the fact most cars are left stationary overnight so all you need is enough range to last a day -so you could do it today.   

Regardless of this simply not being the case, in future, you won't just "simply pick the car up and fill up as required." because just simply won't be able to. What garages are left, well, you might find yourself down to a hundred miles in your tank and start thinking about the spare 5 gallons you've got splashing around in a container in your boot, and driving around the edge of each town to get there as their congestion charges sting you too much.

The future doesnt look like today - it never has and it never will.



26/7/2022 at 3:10pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Mitchamitri on 26/7/2022
""""I think car clubs may not be ideal with EVs. Rapid chargers shorten battery life and require very large power supplies, larger than most buildings will have."""""

The assumption behind this statement is that cars will need charging so often as they do now, that battery and motor technology won't improve, and neither will infrastructure. Apart from the fact most cars are left stationary overnight so all you need is enough range to last a day -so you could do it today.   

Regardless of this simply not being the case, in future, you won't just "simply pick the car up and fill up as required." because just simply won't be able to. What garages are left, well, you might find yourself down to a hundred miles in your tank and start thinking about the spare 5 gallons you've got splashing around in a container in your boot, and driving around the edge of each town to get there as their congestion charges sting you too much.

The future doesnt look like today - it never has and it never will.



You are right, the future doesn't look like today. The problem is that a lot of people expect it to be just like today but with EVs rather than ICE cars. That isn't going to happen! If ICE cars are going to be replaced by EVs, I think some very drastic lifestyle changes are going to have to come with them. One such may well be "Club cars". As I have just said on another post, EVs are fine for those who can afford to buy new, and for company cars. They are not much use though to the millions of people who only ever buy second-hand, especially those who don't/can't afford to spend more than say £3,000 on a car. 8 year battery life guarantee has been mentioned but any car I and many others like me are going to buy is going to be at least 10 years old before they can consider it. With rapidly rising second-hand prices they may well go to 15 years soon. Petrol and diesel cars last that long these days, unlike in the 1960s, and the car I sold 3 years ago is still on the road at 22 years old. My current car is 13 years old and I plan to keep it for many years yet. It may well see out my driving days.

I find this a fascinating topic, as there are almost as many ideas out there as people. We all see things through different eyes.


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26/7/2022 at 3:43pm
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Apparently for the first 25 years of car ownership there were no actual filling stations!!   Reminds me of.....wasnt it they invented the television before they looked at what they'd put on it?


26/7/2022 at 3:46pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Fiona W on 26/7/2022
Interesting & relevant new thread in the Towing forum about towing experience with an EV.




There are actually two very, very informative posts from the same member.

Post 1

Post 2

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XVI yes?

As well is two words!
How does a sage know everything about everything? or does he? or does he just think he does?
Remember, if you buy something you bought it, not brought it.


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26/7/2022 at 4:16pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Mitchamitri on 26/7/2022
Apparently for the first 25 years of car ownership there were no actual filling stations!!   Reminds me of.....wasnt it they invented the television before they looked at what they'd put on it?



Yes, as I understand it, car owners had to buy their petrol in gallon cans from a chemist!


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Colin


26/7/2022 at 8:27pm
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That was true. I think cars came about due to another pollution problem they had in towns with huge great piles of horse **it stinking to high heaven.



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