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 Topic: Towerblock fire in London
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18/6/2017 at 10:19pm
Location: Derby.
Outfit: Karsten 350+Awnings
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Quote: Originally posted by Mike3003 on 18/6/2017
Quote: Originally posted by 664DaveS on 17/6/2017
According to news a few thousand saved on cladding instead of using better fire resistant stuff.
I would like to see money grabbing bean counters and execs brought to justice if its true.
Absolutely right Dave, they should have ALL their assets stripped and be made to pay back every penny and more. My dislike of property developers and the like has increased to near hatred. Greedy b#####ds.
Money before lives, that and cutting back on the very people we need to keep us safe................ A national disgrace.
Who are we nominating for the noose here?
If you run over and kill a child doing 30 in a 30 you won't get locked up for speeding. If you're sober, chances are you'll go down for careless driving or causing death by driving without due care and attention. Either way, there will be a law that will get you sent down.
Nobody knows if any laws have been broken yet. If the "law" (read building regs) states that the panels used are acceptable, and the contractor can prove all was also installed within the regs, that's them off the hook. If the same regs say you don't need to install sprinklers during any refurb of older buildings, that's that one out of the equation.
Clearly something has gone wrong, but that doesn't necessarily equate to someone having broken the law. Maybe, the only outcome will be a changing of these building refs, but for now, we (the public) need to keep that noise vet slack indeed!
Even if it does end up with these cladding panels getting the blame, that won't mean it was illegal, or even immoral, to have fitted them.
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19/6/2017 at 5:39pm
Location: Derby.
Outfit: Karsten 350+Awnings
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Quote: Originally posted by Mike3003 on 19/6/2017
...but watching the media coverage it does seem that their concerns were ignored...
Indeed it does, Mike.
Their anger is totally understandable, as you rightly say.
But if the word on the street proves to be fact, then those to whom these concerns were aimed at apparently/allegedly passed them on to higher beings. No doubt that got passed again, to even higher beings. Those concerns may well have reached the very top, but ultimately, those at the very top know nothing about cladding panels nor sprinkler systems. Nor should we expect them to. They must be allowed to be advised by "the experts", and if they say all is ok/acceptable/above board, who can argue with them (until something like this happens!).
If it's the folk at the top that are being nominated by some for charges/prison/fines/hanging etc, then all those in a similar position will no longer trust the word of an expert, so nothing will ever get done as nobody would take responsibility.
If it's these so called experts that are being nominated, then in the twink of an eye, every single expert in the land will resign, never uttering another word of advice (knowledgable or otherwise), and we'll have literally nobody to turn to!
Sometimes we just have to put our trust in folk, and hope they know what they are doing/advising. Sometimes it may ultimately lead to mistakes being made, but mistakes they are, not criminal acts!
Obviously, my personal thoughts are all currently based on everything being within building regs and no corners cut. At the moment, we know nothing else.
Naturally, we must then look to learn from these mistakes and alter said building regs accordingly, including retrospective improvements if need be.
If corners have been cut, and rules have been broken, then I'll happily join the witch hunt!
I wonder if those that are calling for charges to be made (at this extremely early stage) could guarantee that their own house could never catch fire and cause the death of a neighbour, (and would they then put themselves forward for a manslaughter charge, as the owner of the house?) or are they simply putting their faith in the experts?
Mistakes happen, people. If this proves to be the case, how about we learn from them, instead of trying to find a guilty party.
If it ultimately proves to be a criminal act, then rant away, but for now at least, let's just keep a little decorum. We owe that much at least, to those tragically lost, and those left suffering.
XXX
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From July 2012: 23 nights
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20/6/2017 at 6:09pm
Location: East Herts
Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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Mick S, re your second paragraph, it's rarely that simple. I strongly suspect that many of those in the tower block were doing vital jobs in London, but were probably not even earning £1,800 a month. Moving them to a cheaper part of the country because they were claiming benefits would solve nothing, as who would do their jobs, and what work would they be able to get in a cheaper part of the country? These days, many of those having to claim benefits are working, as rents and wages are no longer in sync. Either rents are FAR too high, or wages WAY too low, or possibly both.
I certainly couldn't afford to live in Kensington, but then I wouldn't want to either.
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Best Regards,
Colin
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