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 Topic: DONT blindly trust Sat Navs!
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11/7/2024 at 9:59am
Location: London
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Think I've found the perfect camp site to 'break' all sat navs/route planners! Setting caravan as the vehicle and even entering dimensions didn't prevent them from being totally bonkers!
Planning a trip with the caravan to CAMC Borrowdale site on the bottom end of Derwentwater in the Lake District. I read the site advice on approach routes, which is ONLY approach from the south off the B5289 at Grange, which seemed blindingly obvious to me as I already know the roads quite well, BUT clearly no one pointed out 'blindingly obvious' to all the route planners/sat navs I tried!
Every single one has tried to route me from the north (Keswick) down an unclassified single track hilly, winding, mountainside lane on the west of the lake! FFS why! There is a perfectly good near flat and straight two lane 'B' road on the eastern side of the lake! A few via's sorted most out to force the route off the mountainside lane, but TomTom's online route planner was having none of it, all the added via's did was cause it to entirely encircle the lake to hit them, but still take me back to Keswick to do the final leg down the wholly unsuitable mountainside lane – NOTHING would make it abandon that lane! - I was routed within a few hundred yards of my destination to hit the nearest via, bet then retracing the route back miles to pick up the start of the WRONG route - how crazy is that!
I don't really need a sat nav to guide me on the last leg from Keswick, as I know the roads well enough, but tend to use it to jog my memory on approaching turns etc., as after a good 6 or 7 hours on the road I'll probably be getting weary, I also like the current traffic news/roadwork/holdups that it advises, so tend to want it to cover my entire route.
If ever a demonstration was needed NOT to blindly trust a sat nav/route planner, this must be it! Have to concede the mountainside lane route is doable with the caravan, but it's a hellish route with potentially endless conflicts with oncoming traffic on the single track, compared with the absolute doddle of a decent 'B' road route which is actually no longer!
Never trusted a sat nav enough to not confirm a route on a map of some kind, and a bit of Street View checking on any doubtful places just to ensure it's not too risky with the caravan, but this has REALLY undermined my confidence that even caravan specific ones should be trusted at all! I've always found TomTom's online route planner to be very reliable for my caravan journeys in the past, but that confidence has now gone!
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11/7/2024 at 10:13am
Location: Worcestershire
Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
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We have a TomTom Camper Satnav and have Archie's loaded for campsite. Archie's uses co-ordinates and not post code so our Satnav alwasy takes us down the correct route. However I use Google Earth to check the route prior to setting off to an unknown destination.
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11/7/2024 at 10:50am
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Satnav manufacturers don't actually visit every route and ensure their data is correct and the route they suggest is 100% ok.
However what they offer is a feedback system to report unsuitable routes to the mapping companies. Tomtom system is MapShare reporter. If you have been provided a poor route let them know and they will update their map algorithms..
A friend did this with google maps and within 24 hours a route he knew wasn't possible was changed.
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11/7/2024 at 10:56am
Location: East Herts
Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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I always plan routes I'm not familiar with using a good old road map backed up by Google Earth. I got used to using that when I drove heritage double deckers as it was essential to spot any low bridges or large overhanging trees. No sat-navs in 1960s buses! The only one I have is the one fitted in my car and that was out of date by 2014. It's still quite good, but I'd never rely on it.
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Best Regards,
Colin
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11/7/2024 at 1:58pm
Location: London
Outfit: Lunar Cosmos 524
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Quote: Originally posted by daveyjp on 11/7/2024
Satnav manufacturers don't actually visit every route and ensure their data is correct and the route they suggest is 100% ok.
However what they offer is a feedback system to report unsuitable routes to the mapping companies. Tomtom system is MapShare reporter. If you have been provided a poor route let them know and they will update their map algorithms..
A friend did this with google maps and within 24 hours a route he knew wasn't possible was changed.
Two submissions have already been made, one on feedback on https://plan.tomtom.com/, and one via Mapshare, hopefully someone is listening!
It wasn't so much that it automatically chose a bad route (that I can sort of accept, on the basis of automated systems), it was that NOTHING would get it to abandon that route in favour of a far better route. I've always found you can manipulate a route with strategic 'via' points to force things where you want to go, but not this one, it was ALWAYS going to be that awful route or nothing!
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11/7/2024 at 7:18pm
Location: Liverpool
Outfit: Swift Challenger 560
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I know the roads you mean Monty! We like to treat ourselves to the occasional afternoon tea at the Lodore Falls hotel, morning coffee and scones in the Lingholm Kitchen and we have stayed at the Borrowdale Gates hotel. Even with just the car, the road on the west side of the lake is challenging, there is no way I would consider it with a caravan. Definitely not an area to trust the Sat Nav! I wonder is there a weight or width restriction on the bridge in Grange which your sat nav may have been diverting you away from if you had input extra large dimensions? Hope you have a great holiday, we love that area and will be there in a couple of weeks. Here’s hoping for some decent weather.
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Pixie
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11/7/2024 at 9:02pm
Location: North Lincolnshire
Outfit: Elddis Xplore 495
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Monty's advice to always check routes when using satnav when towing, especially in areas like the Lake District, is very wise.
I would guess that the satnav takes you down the west side of Derwentwater from Keswick to the site because it is the shortest route. The weight and width restriction on Grange Bridge should not apply to car satnavs as the 77 bus (Keswick- Honister Pass- Keswick) goes over it and uses the west side of the lake in both directions. However, I would never want to tow a caravan along it as there are several single lane sections with few passing places.
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12/7/2024 at 10:50am
Location: East Herts
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There is a road near me, just a lane really, which is shown on nearly every map I have looked at, and sat-nav, as a continuous road. However, the centre section of that road is actually just a footpath no more than 4 feet wide at one end. It is impossible to drive down even in a very small car, and when out walking my dog down it I have had to turn round many vehicles with drivers following their sat-nav who think they can get through. Just before Christmas is the worst time with all the delivery drivers thinking it is a shortcut through to my estate. I suspect it was once a bridleway, as many horse riders use it, and at some point many years back when they built houses they widened each end for access to the houses and simply left the centre section as it was.
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Colin
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12/7/2024 at 12:14pm
Location: Liverpool
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We live in Liverpool and many years ago the council decided to put bollards across the middle of a few roads in our area that were being used as a rat run to force people to use the main roads rather than residential streets. The number of young lads in stolen cars who fall foul of these streets is hilarious as sat nav’s don’t always know about the bollards. Trying to flee from the police, they nip up one of the streets expecting to pop out onto the Liverpool ring road and instead, they find themselves trapped. They have to abandon the car and run. Last year, after finding themselves trapped with police at both ends, 2 young lads decided to climb onto the roof of the house opposite ours and had a stand off with the police that lasted most of the night! Very entertaining!
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Pixie
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12/7/2024 at 12:53pm
Location: London
Outfit: Lunar Cosmos 524
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Quote: Originally posted by dk168 on 12/7/2024
Need to bear this in mind if and when I decide to go back to the Lake District.
Not high on the list as I am still having flashbacks of me in my car rolling down a slope into a ditch when I attempted the Hardknott Pass!
DK 
Blimey DK, I know Hardnott well, driven it dozens upon dozens of times in a variety of cars over decades, and all without incident thankfully, and it truly is a place you REALLY don't want to find yourself having a mishap, it brings an absolute sense of acute reality to 'between a rock and a hard place'! 
One of my delights is to take people unfamiliar with the area for a drive over the pass - "scream if you want to go faster folks", "scream louder if you want to drive back the same way"!   .... mind you the loose 'scree' that litters the road and destroys your grip, and the crumbling edge on the hairpins where you can drive off the edge and tumble down a rocky slope gets a certain orifice a bit 'twitchy' for even the bravest of us!
I've certainly seen a few come to grief, mostly because they are just very poor drivers with no sense of spacial awareness, those rocks on the inside of the hairpin bends are VERY unforgiving to car bodies! Seen a fair few clutches that will never be the same again as well - smoke and clutches are never a good combination! - allegedly it's the steepest public road in Europe, others contend that claim, but 1 in 4 and 1 in 3 (claimed) are certainly not for the feint hearted (or dubious vehicles!). It gets all the more interesting when the cloud is down and you can barely see beyond the end of your bonnet!!!! - that's the time to turn around and go back if you are smart!
Yet to see anyone attempt a caravan over the pass (STRICKLY 4x4 tow vehicle to get anywhere near the really tricky bits if you were STUPID enough to try!), but have seen some hopelessly inappropriate MHs, well more large Campervans, FWD just can't get traction, the wheels spin forward, the vehicle slides backwards! - REALLY bad idea to try! 
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via mobile 11/7/2024 at 9:14pm
