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Topic: Is the 85% rule AS relevant these days

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TheRovingRanger

12/3/2013 at 8:04pm
Location: Orpington
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It's come to that time again that I am looking for a new tow car and so I have been spending many hours reading and researching which has lead me to pose this question to all of you out there.

With modern technology is the 85% rule as relevant as it used to be?

Now before all you die hard traditionalists start ranting at me I'm not suggesting it necessarily isn't the rule we should all try to stick to and I'm not saying that if you are using this technology then you can tow what you want at what speed you want. I'm talking about the average experienced caravaner driving with in or at least around the legal limits.

For me the question arose because the car I was looking at had two models both with the same engine but one with extra seats and a little more weight so the figures came out as 91% and 86%. These vehicles came with trailer stability control that sensed any snaking and counteracted it by independently breaking the vehicles wheels and removing the torque. If you couple this with AL-KO ATC (when it works, I know there are a couple of threads on here with issues with the ATC) or any other emerging trailer safety device then as long as you drive with in your and your outfits limits I'm not so sure if the 85% rule so important.

The benefits for me by going for the lighter model are that not only will I be saving money as the vehicle is cheaper and I don't need the extra seats but I'll be reducing my gross train weight therefore the amount of effort the engine has to do and increasing fuel efficiency. Those of you who are worried that I may one day be on the same road as you possibly with a 91% match just to allay your fears I have been driving for 24 years, towing a van for 7 years and have driven a wide variety of vehicles in that time, also I am an advanced driver who needs his licence so cant afford to speed so be assured I will be of no danger to you.

Finally this post is to get your thoughts on the 85% rule and I am not interested in your suggestions as to what tow car you think I should get. That is why I have not told you what car I am looking at or the van I will be pulling with it. Tow cars are a very hot topic and one mans perfect match is another's wouldn't touch it with a barge pole and there are plenty of threads on here debating this.

So do you think the 85% rule is as relevant these days with modern technology?

Greendemon315

12/3/2013 at 8:23pm
Location: Blackburn Lancashire
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Yes I do. If it were up to me it would be 80%.
Whatever improvements are made in terms of technology, it will fail at some point. There is no substitute for weight differential. Having said that, I used to tow for a living, right up to the maximum 3500kg.

It sounds to me like you are experienced and thoughtful about your towing, and I have no doubt you will be safe, whichever option you choose.

The problem is that there are a lot of inexperienced and unskilled people out there who always want to push the boundaries, and then throw some bikes on top, just to make it a bit more marginal. I would rather not give them any ideas.

Jim

Octavia4x4

12/3/2013 at 8:57pm
Location: Harrogate Yorkshire.
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The 85% is not a rule, it is a guideline and it is acceptable to tow up to 100%. I have been towing for 25 years and have always stayed within the guideline, with my unit now my ratio is 82% but looking at another caravan which will take me up to 90%.

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Skoda Octavia Estate 2.0TDi 4x4 (2012) towing a Compass Omega 482 (2014)

GCMS2012

12/3/2013 at 9:10pm
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Wonder how C+E artic drivers' see this?

They 'tow' a trailer as in the 'E' part is the trailer weighing around 30ish tonnes and the towing vehicle can be a light as 9 tonnes.

-------------
Damned if I do...

Damned if I don't!!!!

Grampian91

12/3/2013 at 9:59pm
Location: Midlands
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But look what happens when they have an emergency. Trailer wins. Even though the trailer brakes are better than a caravans.

Its always the WHAT IF. When the unexpected happens you may wish the car was heavier or the caravan lighter.

pamanddoug

12/3/2013 at 10:49pm
Location: plymouth
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Grampian91 ,as an incident support operative I am also a C+E holder I have been to several accidents where even though the car and caravan have been within the 85% the trailer still wins hence you see caravans which have sent their towing car off the road and overturned them or caused them to jacknife mind you its normally caused by bad loading and/or excessive speed

doug

birdman101

13/3/2013 at 7:27am
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In 40 years of caravanning i have always kept well under the 85% PRESENTLY 62% and even then, i have always loaded as much weight as possible in the motor before putting it in the caravan.So keep to min in weight and heavy stuff in motor.

Post last edited on 13/03/2013 11:32:27

neil and lena

13/3/2013 at 8:58am
Location: Dumfries
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Quote: Originally posted by GCMS2012 on 12/3/2013

Wonder how C+E artic drivers' see this?
They 'tow' a trailer as in the 'E' part is the trailer weighing around 30ish tonnes and the towing vehicle can be a light as 9 tonnes. <img align="absmiddle" src="forum_images/smiley15.gif" width="17" alt="17">

Sorry but a car/ caravan combination cannot even be compared to an articulated 44000kg setup.
There not even alike , for starters a caravan breaking sytem relys on the tow car breaking before they operate.
A modern tri axle trailer has ABS sensors on all wheels and full air suspension and braking system is designed to be operated independently of the tractor if required.
Some lightweight trailers are also designed to carry up to 29000kg and with ABS the chances of jacknifing are considerably reduced

Vectratot

13/3/2013 at 9:11am
Location: DURHAM
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Weight ratio's can not be calculated by loading the car up, ratio's are calculated by the caravan MTPLM to cars kerb weight.

neil and lena

13/3/2013 at 9:12am
Location: Dumfries
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Of course there are some on this forum with overly heavy caravans and lightweight cars who will always try and justify there outfits inadequacies
and dismiss the 85% advice as unnecessary
But there is no substitute for a good weight advantage in your towcar.

bessie500

13/3/2013 at 9:23am
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Wrong HGV trailer brakes work when you press the brake pedal in the cab, the brakes also come on when you uncouple the airlines (red one) this is designed to stop the trailer rolling back when you couple up to it whilst parked....... and a tri axle trailer only has 2 abs sensors these are on the middle axle no need for 6

Bessie

Greendemon315

13/3/2013 at 9:39am
Location: Blackburn Lancashire
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I too used to drive HGVs as well as towing everything Nader the in.

It really isn't the same thing. The trailer outweights the tractor unit by a good margin, just as a 3600kg trailer outweighs your 4 x 4.

You do not want the trailer to take charge. You see small men leading great big Shire horses quite easily, but any time that horse wants, it can throw the man about like a rag doll.

I've been right up o the limits all my working life, but when I have an option with my own caravan and tow car, I run at 70%.

I have a million miles towing under my belt, three million in total. Yet people with no towing experience at all want to run at 85% and more.

Doesn't make much sense.

Jim

beanpark

13/3/2013 at 10:03am
Location: Surrey
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So does that mean the lower it is down from 85% the better

-------------
Chrissie

Be Strong-Think positive.

neil and lena

13/3/2013 at 10:34am
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Quote: Originally posted by bessie500 on 13/3/2013
Sorry but a car/ caravan combination cannot even be compared to an articulated 44000kg setup.
There not even alike , for starters a caravan breaking sytem relys on the tow car breaking before they operate.
A modern tri axle trailer has ABS sensors on all wheels and full air suspension and braking system is designed to be operated independently of the tractor if required.
Some lightweight trailers are also designed to carry up to 29000kg and with ABS the chances of jacknifing are considerably reduced

Wrong HGV trailer brakes work when you press the brake pedal in the cab, the brakes also come on when you uncouple the airlines (red one) this is designed to stop the trailer rolling back when you couple up to it whilst parked....... and a tri axle trailer only has 2 abs sensors these are on the middle axle no need for 6
<FONT color=#000000>Bessie

WRONG trailer brakes can be applied independently of the tractor .
I my learned freind hold a class 1 and have done for 30+ years and the unit that I drove untill i retired had a trailer brake on the dash which applies
the brakes on the trailer independently of the tractor IF REQUIRED
The foot brake applies the lot
Some of the newest tri axles DO have an ABS sensor on every axle

Post last edited on 13/03/2013 10:42:40

Greendemon315

13/3/2013 at 10:42am
Location: Blackburn Lancashire
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I can confirm that. I've had a separate control as well.

Beanpark, yes it does.

For anyone wondering, Nader the in was originally typed as under the sun. iPad with a mind of its own. Sorry.

Jim

alan29

13/3/2013 at 10:49am
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Why not just get a car that is easily capable of towing the van?
There is more to comfortable and safe towing than just weights ... power and torque have to be major safety factors on our congested roads. And power and weight tend to go hand in hand.

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