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Subject Topic: Spring assisters and insurance
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03/9/2013 at 1:54pm
 Location: Devon
 Outfit: Cabanon Malawi 2.0
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Hi,

Following my previous thread on my alarmingly low ground clearance, I have come to the conclusion (after discussing with the towbar fitters) that spring assisters are the solution (either the Grayston doughnuts or the MAD helper springs).

I asked my insurers about fitting assisters at the weekend, and they flatly refused to cover any suspension modification (even though they acknowledged that assisters are a safety mod). I was actually asking about Helper Springs, but I got the impression that their attitude to the doughnuts would be the same if I honestly notified them as a modification.

I just phoned Grayston for advice, and they said 'we've been selling them for over 30 years and people usually just fit them and I don't think they tell their insurers'. Hmmm...

So what is going on with these things? Are they really a notifiable suspension mod, and are thousands of people driving round uninsured with them fitted? Or is all the insurance talk just scaremongering? I have a horrible vision of having an accident when towing and then being told my insurance is void because I have a bit of rubber stuffed into my coil springs.

So do people with these assisters fitted really tell their insurers? And do insurance companies really care? If you have cleared it with your insurers, how did you go about convincing them to accept them?

Thanks in advance for any wisdom!


03/9/2013 at 2:17pm
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These are some sort of suspension modification to the tow-car, yes?

I'd think most motor insurers would regard such a mod as a material fact, and as such it should be disclosed.

If your current insurer declines it, look around. But I'd really suggest you get the cover fixed up first, before having the mod done. Good luck.

-------------
Mike

My advice is worth no more than the price paid for it

Prague May/Jun 2017
Lake Annecy Aug 2017


03/9/2013 at 2:20pm
 Location: Blackpool
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Could you just fit bigger tyres to the car ?


03/9/2013 at 2:26pm
 Location: Devon
 Outfit: Cabanon Malawi 2.0
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Quote: Originally posted by mikegalagher on 03/9/2013
These are some sort of suspension modification to the tow-car, yes?

I'd think most motor insurers would regard such a mod as a material fact, and as such it should be disclosed.

If your current insurer declines it, look around. But I'd really suggest you get the cover fixed up first, before having the mod done. Good luck.



That's what I thought. To be honest I was surprised by Grayston's attitude and was surprised by their apparent ignorance of insurance issues. But then, the towbar fitters also said they'd never heard of anyone notifying their insurers about spring assisters.


03/9/2013 at 2:51pm
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Thing is, if I replace my suspension on my (non tow) car, but beef it up a bit, is that a modification, or a simple improvement? It isn't always clear cut unfortunately.

The advice is to disclose material facts, i.e. those facts an insurer would regard as likely to influence the acceptance and assessment of the proposal, and that if the
proposer is in any doubt about facts considered material, he/she should disclose them.

I'm long since retired from the insurance game, but I'd think the fitting of towing assisters would be material, as they bear right on towing, therefore safety.

-------------
Mike

My advice is worth no more than the price paid for it

Prague May/Jun 2017
Lake Annecy Aug 2017


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03/9/2013 at 5:47pm
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Possibly a modification so to cover yourself you need to inform them. Unfortunately your ins. co. is lumping it in with all suspension mods including lowered suspension which might suggest you are a boy racer. I'm guessing many drivers fit assistors & it don't even occur to them to inform their ins.

One could of course argue that lowered suspension improves handling & makes car safer but it also suggests you want to drive fast so increasing risk. Perhaps spring asistors suggest to your ins that you might be doing a lot of towing which they might regard as extra risk. Sounds daft but its all assessed on computer models, I think.

-------------
Regards, Jack+Jon.


03/9/2013 at 7:01pm
 Location: Devon
 Outfit: Cabanon Malawi 2.0
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I'll try ringing the insurance co. again this evening and see if they still say the same thing. I'm hoping it might help to talk to a different person and explain that the towbar company advised us to use assisters with our car/caravan. Otherwise I'll just have to wait until our insce is due for renewal in April and look elsewhere for a policy.


03/9/2013 at 8:55pm
 Location: fife
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try asking caravan club insurance,they should know about the greyson dough nuts.


03/9/2013 at 11:16pm
 Location: Lancaster
 Outfit: Landcruiser & Avondale Mayfair 510-5L
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I still have some Grayson doughnuts that a bloke from the Land Cruiser owners club gave me; I changed the springs instead, told my insurance, but its hardly a rarity for 4x4 to have the suspension changed, and no premium change (NFU insurance).

The Grayson things really do look & feel the part; dont think the folks at work who have fitted them (Mondeo & 407) have told insurance. Interesting point.

-------------
Regards
Chris
Caravanning for 22 years
1997 Toyota Land Cruiser 3.0TD & 2004 Avondale Mayfair 510-5L
Previous towcars:
2002 Nissan Primera - sold
2002 Ford Galaxy - Died & scrapped. Good riddance.
1998 BMW 525TDS SE - PEx
1998 VW Passat SE - Crashed into & scrapped
1997 Peugeot 406 GLX - PEx


04/9/2013 at 7:14am
 Location: Mansfield
 Outfit: coachman 380 2 Ssangyong Korando elx4
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I put MAD springs on my kia magentis and a diesel tuning box and it made no difference to my insurance , I'm insured with Admiral


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04/9/2013 at 7:52am
 Location: Devon
 Outfit: Cabanon Malawi 2.0
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Quote: Originally posted by stuart1955 on 04/9/2013
I put MAD springs on my kia magentis and a diesel tuning box and it made no difference to my insurance , I'm insured with Admiral



Thanks. It's good to know that some insurers take a reasonable view.


04/9/2013 at 8:25am
 Location: Rushden Northants
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We bought Firestone air bags for the Discovery, told the insurers and as it was a kit specifically for the Discovery and as the Discovery originally sold with optional air suspension, they were happy.

$99 in the USA, we bought the kit back on one of our regular trips.

Peter


04/9/2013 at 1:21pm
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I took the view that inserting bits of rubber between the springs on my car wasn't a modification. A bit like adding mudflaps or a roofrack. The actual car is unchanged.

I did inform my insurers when I had a towbar fitted, and my premium went up. When I asked why, they explained it was to cover the replacement cost should the car need repairing after an accident, nothing to do with a change in the risk.



04/9/2013 at 3:09pm
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Quote: Originally posted by mikegalagher on 03/9/2013
Thing is, if I replace my suspension on my (non tow) car, but beef it up a bit, is that a modification, or a simple improvement? It isn't always clear cut unfortunately.




yes, that's a modification.

Its classed as a mod if it didn't come out of the factory like that. beefing up the suspension is modifying it from factory fitment, so they want to know.

My insurers even classed the bit of chequer plate on my landys wings as a mod, after ive done a few other bits, they have agreed to continue to insure me this year (for all of another 2 months) but declined to insure next yer due to my other "mods" non of which are performance enhancing, but safety/security/protection mods.


04/9/2013 at 5:29pm
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Hi, I fitted MAD spring assistors to the Passat we used to have. Made a big difference. I spoke to MAD about speaking to my insurer and the advice they gave (albeit verbally) was to not inform them!

That didn't sit well with me so I decided to advise them. Rather than ring and get someone in a call centre I decided to write a carefully worded letter to the underwriting department explaining what I'd had fitted, and how it made the car safer for towing and that they didnt change the appearance or performance of the car etc. I enclosed a product brochure, sent it off recorded delivery and hoped for the best.

That replied to say that as my 'mods' were safety related they were happy to accept them without increasing my policy.

If it helps here is a draft of what I sent:

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Ref Policy Number:

 

I refer to the vehicle covered by the above policy with you. I use this car to tow a caravan. The car and caravan is a good, safe match as defined by the guidelines laid down by the Caravan Club. However I was anxious to make the car even safer and more stable whilst towing, by finding a way of making it sit more level. So I researched possible solutions.

 

I have now fitted some Progressive Rear Spring Helpers to the factory fitted springs which means that the car remains nice and level when towing without affecting the suspension when driving solo. These are a recognised safety feature fitted by many caravanners and were fitted by a qualified vehicle technician.

 

However I would like to stress that the above helpers have not lowered or raised the standard suspension, they have not improved the cars performance or handling, increased its load carrying capacity, changed its appearance or added to its appeal from a theft risk point of view.

 

I trust that as a reputable Insurance provider you will not view the above as an opportunity to increase my annual premium and that you will recognise that I am simply towing a caravan with a diesel Passat - just trying to make sure that it is nice and safe for me, my family and other road users.

 

For your reference I attach details of the Progressive Spring Helpers (see attached leaflet)

 

Please can you confirm receipt of this letter and acknowledge its content for my records.

 

Thank you in advance of your kind attention.

 



Post last edited on 04/09/2013 18:01:53


04/9/2013 at 7:12pm
 Location: Devon
 Outfit: Cabanon Malawi 2.0
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Quote: Originally posted by audicab26 on 04/9/2013

Hi, I fitted MAD spring assistors to the Passat we used to have. Made a big difference. I spoke to MAD about speaking to my insurer and the advice they gave (albeit verbally) was to not inform them!



That didn't sit well with me so I decided to advise them. Rather than ring and get someone in a call centre I decided to write a carefully worded letter to the underwriting department explaining what I'd had fitted, and how it made the car safer for towing and that they didnt change the appearance or performance of the car etc. I enclosed a product brochure, sent it off recorded delivery and hoped for the best.

That replied to say that as my 'mods' were safety related they were happy to accept them without increasing my policy.



Many thanks - that's very helpful advice. I will try the same approach, and see what the response is. I've nothing to lose by trying!



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