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Subject Topic: 85% of what?
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Personsweetrunninggir
09/5/2014 at 11:53pm
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Hi there, I am about to get a new caravan to go on a seasonal pitch. I will, however, be towing to south of France once a year. The % between caravan and car's Kerbweight is 97%. Which I won't tow at under any circumstances.
However, when I tow I add a roof box, 4 adults, 4 bikes, awning, etc to the car. Which puts the actual weight of my vehicle when towing at 2010kgs.   (200kgs more than Kerbweight) (Checked with weighbridge)
So , my question is this: can I weigh the the car, fully loaded with all fuel and passengers and luggage and use that figure as the Kerbweight for calculating the 85% guide or does it have to be the Kerbweight as it left the factory? By the way, I have checked the gtw and there is plenty of capacity for car, caravan and all the contents of both, it is the % caravan to car I am concerned about...

Hope you can help!


PersonLightFantastic
10/5/2014 at 12:15am
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The kerbweight is a manufacturer's figure, not the weight of it once you've laden it up with things.

This link will help.


PersonGrampian91
10/5/2014 at 12:45am
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Having to play with the figures suggests you need a more suitable car or a lighter van.

85% recommended figure is the cars unladen kerbweight not after loading it to make the figures appear better.

Its only a recommended figure not a legal one. If your happy to tow at 97% then its upto you.


Personmillermicm
10/5/2014 at 6:40am
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AAs above, the 85% is a guide. If you are experienced and the car feels powerful enough with the van then it's up to you but for regular duty it is probably not the best match.

-------------
Steve


PersonROG.
10/5/2014 at 8:22am
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The basic idea is not to have the caravan actually weighing 85% more than the actual weight of the towing vehicle at the time of towing but most do not have a weighbridge so its easier to use the worse case scenario of empty vehicle and fully loaded caravan - kerb weight of vehicle and MTPLM of caravan



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


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Personsweetrunninggir
10/5/2014 at 10:45am
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Thank you all for your help. I took my car to a weighbridge yesterday because every outfit matching service rates my cars kerbweight differently. The towsafe one on the C&CC website seems to use the version 5 seat version of my car, the dealers version said the kerbweight was a lot heavier than the car actually is. Whattowcar.com got it about right! So I gave up wondering and went to a weighbridge. The weighbridge said my car, with roofbox loaded with awning etc and some items in the boot (but without the driver and a full tank of fuel) weighed 1826kgs. So I have been wondering if it is safe to use this as my kerbweight. If so, and i kept my caravan loaded lightly then I could get the %down to 90%. So my outfit would be 90% of actual car weight, with a 4 wheel drive car with spring assisters fitted and Alko Trailer Control. I am a fairly experienced caravanner. Alternatively, have i messed this up and need to change my car?


PersonGrampian91
10/5/2014 at 1:48pm
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Personally i wouldnt use the loaded vehicle figures. What happens if you cannot load the vehicle and need to tow it by yourself and not laden?

Your going to get lots of opinions. But its your call at the end of the day.

Its not illegal as long as the max weights are not exceeded.


PersonBill Terry
10/5/2014 at 2:06pm
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Not just that, If you have an accident even if its not your fault, your insurance company has a nice loop hole for not paying out.You just dont know what condistions turn up when you are on the road, wind. have to brake fast, have to serve for some unknown reason.It might feel ok pulling your van, But will your car stop in a safe distance?

-------------
Roughing it in style at Calloose caravan and camping holiday park nr St Ives.(seasonal pitch)
Its not a hangover, its wine flu!


nant mill.N/Wales
just dont go there.


Personjanus
10/5/2014 at 3:31pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 10/5/2014
Not just that, If you have an accident even if its not your fault, your insurance company has a nice loop hole for not paying out.You just dont know what condistions turn up when you are on the road, wind. have to brake fast, have to serve for some unknown reason.It might feel ok pulling your van, But will your car stop in a safe distance?


If the car is not overladen, the caravan not overladen and the train weight not exceeded the the insurance company have no leg to stand on. The 85% guideline is just that and if you read all of it then it also suggests that up to 100% is perfectly acceptable.



-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


PersonROG.
10/5/2014 at 3:41pm
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Quote: Originally posted by janus on 10/5/2014
Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 10/5/2014Not just that, If you have an accident even if its not your fault, your insurance company has a nice loop hole for not paying out.You just dont know what condistions turn up when you are on the road, wind. have to brake fast, have to serve for some unknown reason.It might feel ok pulling your van, But will your car stop in a safe distance?


If the car is not overladen, the caravan not overladen and the train weight not exceeded the the insurance company have no leg to stand on. The 85% guideline is just that and if you read all of it then it also suggests that up to 100% is perfectly acceptable.



I agree with Janus



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


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PersonBill Terry
10/5/2014 at 3:56pm
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I am talking about if you are over the limit. The insurance company will not pay out.

-------------
Roughing it in style at Calloose caravan and camping holiday park nr St Ives.(seasonal pitch)
Its not a hangover, its wine flu!


nant mill.N/Wales
just dont go there.


Personjanus
10/5/2014 at 7:09pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 10/5/2014
I am talking about if you are over the limit. The insurance company will not pay out.


Which limit? I thought it was 85% that was being discussed.


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


PersonROG.
10/5/2014 at 7:09pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 10/5/2014
I am talking about if you are over the limit. The insurance company will not pay out.

What limit are you referring to?



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


agi9
12/5/2014 at 6:50pm
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I was lead to believe it was the caravaning people that ADVISED new to towing people, not to tow above 85%,but as someone posted,if you have towed before, 100% is ok if you feel ok with it.


Personsweetrunninggir
12/5/2014 at 8:23pm
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Thank you all for your help and advice. I have looked at the C&CC links too, and now feel confident that the complete outfit will be within the Gross Train Weight, and with the benefit of 10 years towing experience, ATC trailer control and spring assisters fitted to the 4x4 tow car, that I can tow safely, although I still don't understand why the guidance is 85% of Kerbweight and not actual vehicle weight at the time of travelling, especially if the idea is to ensure that the tail doesn't wag the dog.
However, I now have another weight query. The 7% of laden weight noseweight guide takes me over the limit for the towball and the towbar. Could I achieve a safe outfit at 5 or 6% noseweight?

Thank you so much for your help
Christine


Personjanus
12/5/2014 at 9:14pm
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Yes


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci



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