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Subject Topic: S Max Towing Bailey - Towing Instability
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14/2/2015 at 9:55am
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Hi,

I have a 2.0 TDCi 140BHP S Max, and tow a Bailey Pageant Provence caravan with a MTPLM of 1475kg. Whilst the stability is generally very good, I have had a couple of unnerving experiences where the outfit has pitched (rear of car bouncing up and down somewhat uncontrolled) when I have driven over some long bumps (undulations) in the road. This is obviously of concern for me.

The caravan is not over loaded and the nose weight was 80kg (max for car).

Now at the last service I was advised that the rear arm bushes were cracking and would need replacing at the next service but I do not believe these would cause the pitching. The car has only done 62000 miles so I cannot believe the shocks are worn (no other evidence for this).

The S Max has good towing reviews and is a good match to the caravan so I am debating how to tackle this.

One option, as I have had the S Max for 5 years, is swapping it for a Kuga. The Kuga is lighter but has a higher towing nose weight which means I can load the tow ball up for more stability. The Kuga is also reviewed well as a tow car plus has the added bonus of being 4WD.

So, any thoughts as to the cause of the pitching of the S Max – has anyone had a similar problem, and would anybody be tempted to go for the Kuga swap??

Thanks
Mark


14/2/2015 at 1:14pm
 Location: East Herts
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Mark, I would certainly start by having the rear suspension of the car checked out. That does sound like worn dampers to me.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


14/2/2015 at 2:47pm
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How long have you been towing for Mark?

I only ask some pitching over bumpy roads is expected and can be unnerving the first few times. I don't think changing your car is the answer, we tow with an X5 which has self levelling suspension and you still feel it from time to time.

One question for you, have you anything heavy at the rear of the van? Somtimes people load at the very rear of the van to achieve nose weight correction and this can cause pitching. If you have anything in the rear move it towards the axle, and I this brings your nose weight too high then move something from the front to towards the axle.

Only other advice I have is have the awning in the van on the floor over the axle. I've always found my vans tow better with some weight over the axle.

Hope this helps, let us know how you get on.


14/2/2015 at 5:02pm
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What you describe can only be controlled by the cars suspension, so I would have it checked out. If that does not solve it then updated springs is the only way to go.
Putting extra noseweight on a Kuga would not improve matters in fact it might make it worse.


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


14/2/2015 at 5:21pm
 Location: Lancashire
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I towed with a smax for 4 years with no problems,id get the rear suspension looked at as that sounds like it could be the problem is the car5 years old ?? Or older ?
Personally I would of thought the kuga would be a bit to light for your van ?? since its baes on the focus, But I don't know the weights

Bessie


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14/2/2015 at 8:04pm
 Location: Lancashire
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The new Kuga 4WD kerbweights are just over 1700kg with a max noseweight of 100kg.

-------------
Kate


14/2/2015 at 10:37pm
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I tow a Bailey Pegasus 546 With an Smax 2.2 tdci without any issues. Do you pump the tyres up to the max? I follow the handbook recommendation of 38 psi front and 48 psi (45+3)) at the rear.

Nose weight is 90kgs which is the max

-------------
Mike


15/2/2015 at 8:23am
 Location: West Midlands
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I am still a novice at this caravanning business but I find I got the best results and felt most comfortable towing when my car was loaded to the gunnels and the caravan was as empty as possible. My car/van combo is way under 85%. Probably something like 75%.

I have found that when I have returned from a weekend without the awning (I always put this in the car boot) and just hitched the caravan without putting food and drink etc in the car. The outfit feels a bit twitchy. I always check the nose weight doesn't exceed my cars limits which is 100kg. It's always around 65kg. I find I have to load my gas spare bottle aqua roll, deck chairs, wastemaster, etc under and on the rear bunk to keep the nose weight down. Car has never felt bouncy though.


15/2/2015 at 10:31am
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Thank you all for taking the time to reply, its appreciated.

I think looking at the dampers is a must, however, when not towing the car handles impeccably so I do not think the dampers are at fault, even though these are what would control the pitching.

The point about the pitching just being part of towing may be a good point. I have been towing for a while but we used to have a much lighter van (mtplm 950kg) which did not trouble the S Max at all. The Bailey is half as much again and is very noticeable (by the way, I was telling porkies as the mtplm of the Provence is 1420kg not 1475kg). It may be that this type of pitching is to be expected from time to time, as apart from these few occurrences it tows brilliantly.

Regarding the Kuga, the only concern with moving to this would be that it is around 100kg lighter than the S Max and has a lower max load capacity. Therefore, it will always be inferior to the S Max on the car to van ratio. The Kuga is about 88% where as the S Max in 85%, although, technically, the Kuga can tow more (2100kg).

Moving on, the Kuga has a higher max towball nose weight (100kg compared with the S Max's 80kg) which means I do not have to shift stuff around as much, plus I have always understood that a heavier nose weight (obviously not exceeding the maximum limits) tends to stabilise things.

It has proven to be difficult to get the Provence's nose weight down to 80kg and I have had to balance it out which may also be a factor in the pitching.

Another advantage for the Kuga is the 4WD which could be useful on some campsites (fields) when trying move the caravan. The S Max spins up so easily.

The S Max is a 57 plate and I have been offered a reasonable p/ex price if I go for the Kuga.

Its proving to be a tough decision.


15/2/2015 at 5:49pm
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the nose weight on any s max is 90kg what is the caravans max? suggest you load to that


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15/2/2015 at 5:56pm
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Kazo we had a Galaxy with 90kg max noseweight but the Witter detachable tow bar had a max noseweight of 80kg, I expect the S Max has the same problem.

The biggest improvement we made when towing was to increase the rear tyre pressures as already mentioned, this made a great difference to the ride.

Rob


15/2/2015 at 6:20pm
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Quote: Originally posted by kazo2014 on 15/2/2015
the nose weight on any s max is 90kg what is the caravans max? suggest you load to that



The nose weight on a pre 07 S Max is 75kg, 07-08 is 80kg and from 58 onwards is 90kg. Do not ask what they did to increase this limit but it does increase throughout the vehicles evolution.


15/2/2015 at 7:32pm
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suggest you read this then http://www.towcar.info/read.php?id=357755


15/2/2015 at 7:54pm
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Yep, this seems to be a common problem as a lot of web sites lump all the S Max's together and detail only the latest specs.

I ran through this same question on the S Max owners club forum, linky below.

http://www.smaxownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?11972-Towing-Weights

Earlier S Max owners need to be aware that their nose weights are lower.

I for one would like to know what Ford did to increase the weight limit as the body shells do not seem to have changed at all!


15/2/2015 at 8:06pm
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on that link I gave it was referring to the same year as your car though, not the newer ones at all


15/2/2015 at 8:09pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Rob and Tina on 15/2/2015
Kazo we had a Galaxy with 90kg max noseweight but the Witter detachable tow bar had a max noseweight of 80kg, I expect the S Max has the same problem.

The biggest improvement we made when towing was to increase the rear tyre pressures as already mentioned, this made a great difference to the ride.

Rob



and that is why I said to find out what the caravan nose weight was and to load upto that




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