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Subject Topic: Post 1997 licence holders safety
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PersonJimmy1980
09/8/2015 at 4:06pm
 Location: Consett County Durham
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I passed my test after 1997 and have been towing for around 7 years. When I replace my car I want to get something a bit heavier to allow a larger safety margin. I find it quite interesting how limiting the post 1997 towing rules are. Ideally I would need a car with a gross weight under 2,100 and that means the caravan must not have a higher MPTLM of 1400kg.

I'm interested to know what cars people think are the best for post 1997 towers. I also wonder whether anybody else thinks a slightly higher limit would mean modern towers would be safer. If the licence limited you to under 4000kg it would be quite easy to find a safe combination yet the moder rules mean if you want a decent size tow car and caravan you have to choose very carefully to ensure a safe combination.


PersonGrampian91
10/8/2015 at 1:34am
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Depends on your needs, it usually excludes the larger 4x4 vehicles so stick to family sized estate cars and you will be OK.

Mondeo, Passat, Isignia etc..

Moving up to 4000kg would be a pain as hundreds of thousands of vans are limited to 3500kg also.

And will still impose problems for someone with a large 4x4 that weighs 3 tons on its own.
Pick a 3L diesel Discovery and its 3260kg laden, giving you just 740kg for the caravan.

Plenty of scope to stay within the 3500kg limit, just do your homework before buying a car or a caravan.

The issues mainly arise when someone buys a van without checking the weight and what they car can tow, or buying a car and not realising its tow limit is lower than their previous car. Or sometimes they find the car is not type approved for towing.


PersonJimmy1980
10/8/2015 at 7:16am
 Location: Consett County Durham
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It still seems tight - looking at a Mondeo, for example, the gross weight is around 2200 - 2300 kg meaning you're looking at a van of 1300 - 1200kg. I'm not seriously looking to buy yet but from looking around it seems quite hard to find a nice 4 berth van below that MTPLM.

Maybe I need the B+E to add a bit more scope! I do wonder about it!


Personbirdman101
10/8/2015 at 7:44am
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There are more older vans about at 1300kg or lower than there are new vans,In the past we have had Sterling Europa 5 berth and Bailey Ranger 4 berth.


PersonJimmy1980
10/8/2015 at 7:46am
 Location: Consett County Durham
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You'd think with modern cars getting lighter and the new rules vans would be reduced in weight too! Mind looking at vans now they're like luxury hotels not caravans!


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PersonAlan Chilestone
10/8/2015 at 9:29am
 Location: Suffolk
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Maybe the answer lies in your last but one post Jimmy. have a go at the B+E test?

-------------
Alan

2016
February C&CC Theobalds Park
March C&CC Salisbury
May C&CC Adgestone IOW
July Le Clos Auroy, Auvergne France
August C&CC Polstead
August C&CC Oxford
October C&CC Lauder


PersonGCMS2012
10/8/2015 at 7:56pm
 Location: Northumberland
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Does it have to be a 'car'....?????

Boss has one of these....

And is converted with rear seating..

Are the weights any good to go on???

-------------
Damned if I do...

Damned if I don't!!!!


Personsennen26
10/8/2015 at 8:20pm
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Hubby says just take your LGV test that will cover anything you may want to tow.
Downside you need a digi card.


Sennen


PersonJimmy1980
10/8/2015 at 8:30pm
 Location: Consett County Durham
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Ha ha the converted van would be within weight but I like the ability to detach my tow car and leave the van!!!

I probably would take my B+E but my wife really doesn't want to, and we both want to be able to tow.

I'd be interested to know whether anybody out there has a nicely matched tow car with 4 berth van within the 3500kg limit? It just seems to me that it probably makes people less safe as you really need to opt for a lower weight tow car and ensure the van is within the towing ability of that tow car. My ideal tow car would be a Vauxhall Antara, or a Ford Kuga but sadly these would limit my choice of van too much, yet their weights are excellent for towing.


PersonBaileyjake
10/8/2015 at 11:21pm
 Location: West Midlands
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I have a bailey ranger 550/6. It's a 6 berth van and is 7m long from hitch to rear lights. It's mplm is 1280kg so that fits between 1200-1300kg. The 4 berth 460/4 is not much lighter at 1256kg. So you could tow either with the mondeo. Whether you consider the ranger to be a 'nice van' is another matter but it suits my needs. I passed my test in 1992 so I tow it with a 4x4. I find it does what I need it to. And with the lower % rario of van to car which helps with towing performance and stability. Although I would say you still know the van is behind you.


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Personjanus
10/8/2015 at 11:37pm
 Location: Rochdale
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Quote: Originally posted by GCMS2012 on 10/8/2015
Does it have to be a 'car'....?????

Boss has one of these....

And is converted with rear seating..

Are the weights any good to go on???


With one of those the max caravan plated weight that a driver with a B licence could tow is 800kg. So no use whatsoever.




-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


PersonBaileyjake
11/8/2015 at 11:11am
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It's crazy isn't it. The 3500kg limit is set for goods vehicles and clearly not caravans. To my mind it's encouraging less than perfect outfit matching. Which is the opposite of which it aims to achieve. However. It certainly doesn't exclude anyone from owning a caravan. Just heavy cars and heavy caravans.


Personiscacamper
11/8/2015 at 2:44pm
 Location: Devon
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Quote: Originally posted by Baileyjake on 11/8/2015
It's crazy isn't it. The 3500kg limit is set for goods vehicles and clearly not caravans. To my mind it's encouraging less than perfect outfit matching. Which is the opposite of which it aims to achieve. However. It certainly doesn't exclude anyone from owning a caravan. Just heavy cars and heavy caravans.


Agreed. I also have the Ranger 550/6 (1280kg) so I am restricted by my B licence to towing with a vehicle under 2220kg gross weight, even though a heavier towcar would be safer. Crazy, really.


Personjanus
11/8/2015 at 3:41pm
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Quote: Originally posted by iscacamper on 11/8/2015
Quote: Originally posted by Baileyjake on 11/8/2015It's crazy isn't it. The 3500kg limit is set for goods vehicles and clearly not caravans. To my mind it's encouraging less than perfect outfit matching. Which is the opposite of which it aims to achieve. However. It certainly doesn't exclude anyone from owning a caravan. Just heavy cars and heavy caravans.


Agreed. I also have the Ranger 550/6 (1280kg) so I am restricted by my B licence to towing with a vehicle under 2220kg gross weight, even though a heavier towcar would be safer. Crazy, really.


A heavier tow car would not necessarily be safer. Virtually all tow cars that have a max gross weight in the region of but less than 2220kg would be superbly stable with a 1280kg van behind them. Finding a tow car that weighs more than that is likely to give no improvements in safe towing.



-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


Personiscacamper
11/8/2015 at 4:44pm
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Quote: Originally posted by janus on 11/8/2015
Quote: Originally posted by iscacamper on 11/8/2015
Quote: Originally posted by Baileyjake on 11/8/2015It's crazy isn't it. The 3500kg limit is set for goods vehicles and clearly not caravans. To my mind it's encouraging less than perfect outfit matching. Which is the opposite of which it aims to achieve. However. It certainly doesn't exclude anyone from owning a caravan. Just heavy cars and heavy caravans.

Agreed. I also have the Ranger 550/6 (1280kg) so I am restricted by my B licence to towing with a vehicle under 2220kg gross weight, even though a heavier towcar would be safer. Crazy, really.


A heavier tow car would not necessarily be safer. Virtually all tow cars that have a max gross weight in the region of but less than 2220kg would be superbly stable with a 1280kg van behind them. Finding a tow car that weighs more than that is likely to give no improvements in safe towing.




A fair point. However, given the limited choice of lightweight caravans available I do feel the 3500kg limit makes it difficult to select a well-matched outfit. Of course, there is also the option of taking the B+E test.


PersonGCMS2012
11/8/2015 at 6:05pm
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Quote: Originally posted by janus on 10/8/2015
Quote: Originally posted by GCMS2012 on 10/8/2015Does it have to be a 'car'....?????

Boss has one of these....

And is converted with rear seating..

Are the weights any good to go on???


With one of those the max caravan plated weight that a driver with a B licence could tow is 800kg. So no use whatsoever.





Oops - guess not then....     



-------------
Damned if I do...

Damned if I don't!!!!



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