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Subject Topic: Tow Car limit vs MTPLM?
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PersonBCx64
08/6/2021 at 1:09pm
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We are looking at buying a Toyota C-HR Hybrid which has a Towing Limit of 725kg and adding a Freedom Microlite Discovery caravan with MIRO 600kg but MTPLM of 750kg.

My insurance company are not worried about the weight limits.
Am I legally allowed to tow the caravan PROVIDED it is loaded to LESS than the tow limit of the car? e.g. add 100kg of User Payload bringing it up to 700kg.
Driving Licence is NOT a concern and neither is the Train Weight as there is approx. 400kg of spare payload with a 725kg 'trailer'.

I can't find any "laws" which prevent this but all the chat seems to say it is not allowable.


Personbessie500
08/6/2021 at 2:05pm
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Hi And welcome to this site, my understanding is you use the max loading of the trailer, This would make it illegal to use.

If you really want the car you can get your caravan down plated so it complies with your max tow weight, i think the manufactures charge around £50 to do this

Bessie    


PersonTriaxle
via mobile 08/6/2021 at 5:29pm
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Not correct. The op is entitled to tow any trailer with that car that is up to 750kg total when loaded irrespective of the mtplm.

What you are saying WAS the case about 10 years ago, but was challenged in court by trailer manufacturers including ifor Williams and overturned. I regularly tow our 3500kg gross trailers with my l200 (max 2600kg) and as long as the trailer and load don’t exceed 2600kg it fine. Have been inspected at roadside DVSA checks in this rig and got the thumbs up. 👍

Simple answer, yes it’s fine, just watch what you load in it weight wise.


PersonBCx64
08/6/2021 at 5:42pm
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Finally managed to find Rule 98 in the Highway Code.
It doesn't matter what the MTPLM is compared to the Towing Limit of the car is as long as the actual weight that is towed is within the towing limit i.e. Gross Train Weight - Gross Vehicle Weight :)

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-drivers-and-motorcyclists-89-to-102


PersonRob and Tina
via mobile 08/6/2021 at 7:51pm
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Triaxle so are you suggesting that the op should tow over their cars maximum towing limit of 725kg then.


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Personnavver
08/6/2021 at 7:55pm
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Agree with that Triaxle but the OP's max tow is 725kg so that must be the max weight of caravan not 750kg as you said.

Gross train weight must not be exceeded by actual loaded combined weights of car and caravan.

However, you may find a folding caravan or camper will have less wind resistance and hence put less work on the car power.


PersonTriaxle
via mobile 08/6/2021 at 7:59pm
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Yep both, apologies, got my 725kg mixed up with the 750kg...

So, YES he can tow the 750kg caravan as long as it actually weighs no more than 725kg loaded.

Well spotted tho.....


PersonBCx64
08/6/2021 at 8:38pm
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Thanks everyone for chipping in.
I'm now happy that it has been resolved and am looking forward to maybe "running into" some of you in the future at a caravan site somewhere.
All the best
Barry


Personbessie500
08/6/2021 at 9:35pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Triaxle on 08/6/2021
Not correct. The op is entitled to tow any trailer with that car that is up to 750kg total when loaded irrespective of the mtplm.

What you are saying WAS the case about 10 years ago, but was challenged in court by trailer manufacturers including ifor Williams and overturned. I regularly tow our 3500kg gross trailers with my l200 (max 2600kg) and as long as the trailer and load don’t exceed 2600kg it fine. Have been inspected at roadside DVSA checks in this rig and got the thumbs up. 👍

Simple answer, yes it’s fine, just watch what you load in it weight wise.


Ok i stand corrected, you learn something new each day .

I know when i started that was the correct way, to be fair it kinda makes sense although it must be a nightmare trying to police it

Bessie



Personiank01
09/6/2021 at 9:10am
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How would you know the MIRO is exactly 600kg as it may be 625kg?


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PersonTriaxle
via mobile 09/6/2021 at 10:25am
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It will be on the plate, if in doubt weigh it


Personbessie500
09/6/2021 at 11:17am
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That's the problem not everyone has a weighbridge to hand, It's surprising just how easy it is to overload a caravan.

i took my van to work once and put it on the weighbridge, Turned out it was already overweigh before i started loading all our holiday stuff in.

Bessie


PersonMonty15
09/6/2021 at 12:06pm
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Quote: Originally posted by bessie500 on 09/6/2021
That's the problem not everyone has a weighbridge to hand, It's surprising just how easy it is to overload a caravan.

i took my van to work once and put it on the weighbridge, Turned out it was already overweigh before i started loading all our holiday stuff in.

Bessie

Likewise with mine, well over stated/plated MIRO, even the nose weight was way in excess of Alko chassis max let alone my towbar! (meaning a VERY illegal tow back from dealer to storage site, albeit unwittingly!)

You really do have to weigh them at some point to know what you are really towing, whether you weigh empty to obtain your personal MIRO, then weigh EVERYTHING you put in it, or do a fully packed weight check to see how close you are to MTPLM.


Personbessie500
09/6/2021 at 12:18pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 09/6/2021
Quote: Originally posted by bessie500 on 09/6/2021
That's the problem not everyone has a weighbridge to hand, It's surprising just how easy it is to overload a caravan.

i took my van to work once and put it on the weighbridge, Turned out it was already overweigh before i started loading all our holiday stuff in.

Bessie

Likewise with mine, well over stated/plated MIRO, even the nose weight was way in excess of Alko chassis max let alone my towbar! (meaning a VERY illegal tow back from dealer to storage site, albeit unwittingly!)

You really do have to weigh them at some point to know what you are really towing, whether you weigh empty to obtain your personal MIRO, then weigh EVERYTHING you put in it, or do a fully packed weight check to see how close you are to MTPLM.



see below, for some reason i can't get it in a spreadsheet format

                                van      car
25 meter cable / weighed                  4.5     
            Ramp and blocks         2     
110 amp battery weighed                   27     
BP Gaslight                         10     
spare wheel etc weighed                  19     
aqua role weighed               4     
wastemaster / fluid   weighed     6          
Awning and poles                   30
oval table   weighed                 5     
chairs      x 4          3.5     14
cadac                              15
Tv                            3.19     
quilt and 4 pillows / sleeping bag          weighed                  9     
pegs, mallet, drill etc say      est               5     
towels, bathrobe toiletries     weighed          5     
cutlery, plates kettle knifes and forks                 6     
shoes            
air bed inner tent           3.5
groundsheet               weighed                  8     
toiletries                             2.5     
windbreak            weighed               3.5     
games / lights      5     
Clothes            
Surf boards            10
Food     10     
Booze            
jack           10
Total     138     67

Bessie


Personiank01
09/6/2021 at 2:49pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Triaxle on 09/6/2021
It will be on the plate, if in doubt weigh it


However that figure is meaningless as components may have changed since the original caravan was submitted for approval. The MIRO of our caravan is supposed to be 1850kg but is actually higher. I don't think the MIRO is displayed as it is not a requirement.


Personnavver
09/6/2021 at 7:59pm
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This is what my manual says is included in the MIRO. I doubt anyone could comply all the information required to come up with a figure.

The Following Items are included in the MRO:
•      LPG - The mass of the recommended gas storage tank(s) when filled to 100% of the permissible maximum capacity. A mass of 10 kg per
cylinder is assumed and the number of cylinders is equal to the number of connections provided at the regulator.
•      Fluids - The mass of the liquids normally remaining in the systems:
1. Water heater system –100% of the manufacturer stated travelling capacity
2. Central heating system – 100% of the mass of fluid in the system
3. Freshwater – 100% of the manufacturer stated travelling capacity (you must travel with all water tanks empty)
4. Waste water holding tank – empty
5. Toilet system flushing tank – 100% of the manufacturer stated travelling capacity
6. Toilet system holding tank – empty
7. Essential fluids for the use of any other items of standard or factory fitted optional equipment – 100% of the manufacturer stated
travelling capacity
•      Electricity Supply
1. 4Kg for the low voltage connection cable

Typical masses consist of:
Kettle 0.5Kg Aquaroll (empty) 5Kg
Bed Linen 6Kg Waste bin 1Kg
Crockery 5Kg Toilet Fluid 2.5 Kg
Saucepans 3Kg Cutlery 2 Kg
Wastemaster 6Kg Battery 25 Kg



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