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 Topic: My first drive of an electric car
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28/9/2023 at 2:04pm
Location: Midlands
Outfit: 2019 VW Arteon + 2002 Avondale Dart
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I had my first ever drive of an electric car this week. It was something called a VW ID-4 (should have been an ID-3, which apparently is exactly the same but a bit smaller, but that's another story)!
I'm not going to start a new discussion about cost or range, both of which have been done to death already and everyone has their own opinion. However, I did want to mention a few other points that only I seem to have noticed:
1. Why do these cars have to include a front end that looks like a bonnet, given that it has nothing under it and doesn't open? I appreciate that safety features might have something to do with it but is it down to psychology (humans don't like too much change at once, and still want their next car to look like a car)?
2. Meanwhile, at the back there are batteries that drive electric motors on the rear wheels - and thus rob the car of boot space. Unless, that is, you spend more money on a long-range version that robs one of the rear seats as well. Is there any reason why the motors can't drive the front wheels and the batteries go under the empty 'bonnet' instead?
3. If they really can't do that, could the front end not house a spare wheel carrier? At least that way, if I were to do my usual thing of getting a puncture on holiday, I wouldn't be completely stuck.
4. Speaking of wheels, does the car really need to be held to the road by 4 flying saucers? Wouldn't smaller wheels offer less resistance and more efficiency?
And 5. To drive ... it was OK, in a boring sort of a way. Apart from the two driving modes. 'D' offered no braking at all whilst in 'B' the regenerative braking was so strong that I found myself using the accelerator to fight it. Think of driving with the handbrake on and you're about there. How hard would it be to fit a dial that allowed the driver to vary that sensitivity?
So concludes my review. Thoughts welcomed 
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"Don't wait for the perfect moment. Take the moment and make it perfect."
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28/9/2023 at 3:26pm
Location: London
Outfit: Lunar Cosmos 524
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Likewise, a few weeks back, my car was in for a service and the courtesy car (Peugeot 208) was fully electric, my first opportunity to actually drive a fully electric car.
Absolutely no surprises with the few hours and miles I spent in the car, apart from how bloody quick it was in 'Sport' mode! As an engineer, all the 'technology' was familiar to me, and driven endless different cars of most types over many decades, so it wasn't really a strange experience, few minor EV specific procedures, but essentially just an automatic car..
Have to say, it was a nice drive, and if I was in the market for that class of car and didn't need better than 200 mile range I'd give it serious thought as a potential purchase. Really can't say very much stood out differentiating it from an IC car though other than the silent 'idle' and sewing machine whirr when driving.
But to me it's a chocolate teapot with that range and my driving needs. Nice courtesy car, nice town car .... BUT!
Now SamandRose, to address your questions.
1) Big element of not differing too much from what we are familiar with from marketing point of view, most 'quirky' cars do not sell in mass market volumes, and yes there will be a lot of safety 'crush zone' requirements there too.
2) Generally desirable to keep heavy stuff like motors and batteries way down low for good handling, AND you need to protect the batteries from impact damage, so sticking them up front in the 'crush zone' is not wise! Damaged lithium batteries are very nasty fire hazard!
3) Think manufacturers have seen the financial advantage of not supplying spare wheels, and in the case of IC cars also improving emissions by a little weight reduction, which translates in EVs to a little more range to boast about.
4) Actually the bigger the diameter of the wheel the LESS rolling resistance!
5) I never bothered trying the regenerative braking on the car I tried, being blokey, more interest in how fast it went!!!!!
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28/9/2023 at 7:48pm
Location: London
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Rear crumple zones tend to have a different role to front ones, when did you last see a car reverse into a tree at 80mph! Front zones tend to have to cope with 'point' impact like trees and lamp posts, whereas rear zones tend to have to cope with rear end shunts from relatively flat fronted vehicles with their own crumple zones! If you've ever seen a car that's spun backwards into a tree, it's pretty frightening how far the tree ends up in the 'cabin', whereas the front will generally keep the tree out of the cabin area!
I struggled back in 2017 when I bought my car new to find one that had any kind of spare wheel, and I looked hard! Really wanted a full size spare, even prepared to pay for a full size spare as a extra, but had to settle for a skinny (get you home) job, really wasn't at all happy with puncture repair gunk being suitable - very limited number of punctures the gunk can deal with! Stupid thing is, if I use my skinny spare, I can't put the full size punctured wheel in the spare carrier, it's too big for the space, it's got to go in the boot, IF THERE IS ROOM, otherwise who knows what to do with it!!!!! These days, even skinny spares seem rare, gunk or nothing! The spare tyre situation is really unsatisfactory IMHO.
I'm with you on car versus price, I could live with the car IF it suited my needs, BUT the price is another matter altogether, I'd want a LOT more car for that kind of money!
Starcraft, life (and limbs!) were cheap back in that era! Think of how many vans had engines under seats and a flat front with NO space between your feet and outside world beyond a thin sheet of metal, and VW didn't even have the engine there! There were some very nasty accidents back then!
Remember the old electric milk floats well, and the idiot youngsters think WE ruined the world! - electric vehicles and reused glass bottles before their parents were born!
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29/9/2023 at 4:07pm
Location: Northamptonshire
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Quote: Originally posted by SamandRose on 28/9/2023
I had my first ever drive of an electric car this week. It was something called a VW ID-4 (should have been an ID-3, which apparently is exactly the same but a bit smaller, but that's another story)!
Always interesting to hear what folks think of EVs after their 1st drive :)
A few additional comments on your points / questions.
Quote:
I'm not going to start a new discussion about cost or range, both of which have been done to death already and everyone has their own opinion. However, I did want to mention a few other points that only I seem to have noticed:
1. Why do these cars have to include a front end that looks like a bonnet, given that it has nothing under it and doesn't open? I appreciate that safety features might have something to do with it but is it down to psychology (humans don't like too much change at once, and still want their next car to look like a car)?
What is under the bonnet depends on the car. Mine has a space under the bonnet to keep charging wires, air compressor, emergency gunk, first aid kit, spare number plate, towing eye, towing mirrors etc. The tesla M3 / MY / S can fit a small suitcase under there.
Oh - and access to the 12v battery and washer filler cap.
Quote:
2. Meanwhile, at the back there are batteries that drive electric motors on the rear wheels - and thus rob the car of boot space. Unless, that is, you spend more money on a long-range version that robs one of the rear seats as well. Is there any reason why the motors can't drive the front wheels and the batteries go under the empty 'bonnet' instead?
Again - depends on the car. The motors in mine are wher
e the diffs are in a regular AWD car, the batteries are under the floor in what woudl be the transmission tunnel.
Quote:
3. If they really can't do that, could the front end not house a spare wheel carrier? At least that way, if I were to do my usual thing of getting a puncture on holiday, I wouldn't be completely stuck.
We haven't had a spare in a car newer than 2015... its not just an EV thing.
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4. Speaking of wheels, does the car really need to be held to the road by 4 flying saucers? Wouldn't smaller wheels offer less resistance and more efficiency?
Thats also a design choice. Smaller wheels are more efficient (though larger is less rolling resistance, smaller tend to weigh less and have less rotational inertia. People seem to like big wheels (and I confess I am in that camp).
Quote:
And 5. To drive ... it was OK, in a boring sort of a way. Apart from the two driving modes. 'D' offered no braking at all whilst in 'B' the regenerative braking was so strong that I found myself using the accelerator to fight it. Think of driving with the handbrake on and you're about there. How hard would it be to fit a dial that allowed the driver to vary that sensitivity?
Again - very much depends on the car. The ID4 is not what you might call "sporty" - its very much an estate / SUV / MPV thing.
"B mode" is something that takes getting used to. In mine, it has 3 selectable settings (off, low, normal). I like it in "Normal" - I use it for "one pedal drive" basically I rarely use the brake pedal, letting the regen of the motors slow me controlled by the accelerator. My wife hates it and likes it "off" more like a classic auto. In my car (Polestar 2) the mode is linked to the driver profile and key so it automatically sets up as we like it. In my wifes Fiat 500E, its controlled via a switch next to the parking break toggle. IN my eldests Renault ZoE, its a B mode on the gear selector. Hyundai and Kia let you change the regen level using flappy paddles near the steering wheel.
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So concludes my review. Thoughts welcomed
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 via mobile 30/9/2023 at 5:52pm
Location: None Entered
Outfit: Coachman Festival
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An interesting topic. We recently decided, as our mondeo is ageing, we would just keep it as a tow car and look at an ev as a general run around car. Distance would not be a problem as it is only intended for local use. In practice, if I need to drive more than 100 miles, I would need to take a break, so no problem giving an ev a charge en route. To be honest, it is a question of getting accustomed to a different way of driving.
Having tested a few, we settled on the bmw i3 ( aka the marmite car). It was the first car ever, Young Auntie has sat in and been able to see out the windscreen without using a pile of cushions. That alone was enough to sell her the car.
On the key remote, is a button that opens the bonnet giving access to 12 volt battery and washers etc and also the front storage space containing charging cables and puncture repair kit.
Like the vw id3, it is rear engined, rear wheel drive, with 3 driving modes. We use eco mode as it gives good performance with better economy. I made the mistake on my first drive in full power mode of pressing hard on the accelerator to over take a lorry and wondered if the front wheels were still on the ground!
So, plenty of torque if needed. The brake re charging facility is fixed on the i3 and personally I love it. Once you get used to single pedal driving, it is a great bonus and I miss it with the mondeo. I reckon I can drive through town and never touch the brake pedal.
I know the i3 has its problems/disadvantages, but it does what we want. Also having changed our electric tariff, I can charge at home for less than £1 to give about 22% charge.
One very important tip, if you are having problems with your ev, check the owners manual, it may be you are doing something wrong.
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02/10/2023 at 11:44am
Location: East Herts
Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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Quote: Originally posted by starcraft on 02/10/2023
I'm in the same boat as Colin regarding purchasing/lease of leccy car, not in this lifetime. However, if my current chariot fails before I do, there will be an excess of used proper motors out there at giveaway prices.
My very first car I purchased for £40 back in 1972, my latest £225 last year although the value is currently £2500, a case of looking for a bargain, the previous owner needed it gone.
As for the green side of things, it seems a bigger problem is the rubber particles from tyres finding it's way into water courses polluting everything. I often wondered where it goes to. My contribution to help with reducing pollution is to drive as little as possible, currently under 1000 miles a year.
I paid £4,000 for my current car, way above my usual budget but I really liked it and it does everything I want, which is why I intend to keep it as long as possible. Apparently the problem of rubber from tyres is worse with EVs than it is with conventional cars, as they tend to be heavier and have bigger tyres. I do about 5,000 miles a year these days, less than half what I used to, especially when I was still working.
It's difficult to predict where the value of used conventional cars will go, as I had a job finding mine 4 years ago. The price of older diesel cars seemed to be rising as more people were hanging onto them. I could almost certainly get back what I paid for my car if I wanted to sell it now, which I don't. There are still a lot of them about, including the earlier model, but very few for sale.
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Best Regards,
Colin
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