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Quote: Originally posted by Big H on 16/10/2007

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I thought the 3500kg towing limit on large 4x4's was a combined or train weight, and if this weight was exceeded you were getting into the realms of the bottom end of HGV's. tacographs etc need advice from a reg's stato on this one

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Nope, it's not.  My (until tomorrow) Isuzu Trooper  has a max towing weight of 3500kg, gross vehicle weight of  2730kg and a max train weight of the sum of the two, i.e. 6230kg.   The Land Rover Defenders, Discoveries, Range Rover, Mitsubishi Shogun, Toyota Landcruiser and Nissan Patrol are similar - or even bigger in some cases.

Interestingly, none of these vehicles, capable though they are, can legally tow a wide bodied Hobby in the UK.  For that, you need a towcar with a gross vehicle weight of at least 3500kg.  My understanding is that you don't need a tacho for any vehicle unless it is used for the carriage of goods.

Cheers
Andrew

 

Quote: Originally posted by snowy747 on 16/10/2007

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I can't understand why Kipperkid because you would be doing nothing illegal towing over the 85% within the parameters stated above. Do you know which insurance companies were involved? I work for a brokerage so I could do some digging to find out why if you know which companies as there may be other members who aren't aware of this?

Ali

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Quote: Originally posted by AndrewK on 16/10/2007

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Quote: Originally posted by Big H on 16/10/2007

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I thought the 3500kg towing limit on large 4x4's was a combined or train weight, and if this weight was exceeded you were getting into the realms of the bottom end of HGV's. tacographs etc need advice from a reg's stato on this one

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Nope, it's not.  My (until tomorrow) Isuzu Trooper  has a max towing weight of 3500kg, gross vehicle weight of  2730kg and a max train weight of the sum of the two, i.e. 6230kg.   The Land Rover Defenders, Discoveries, Range Rover, Mitsubishi Shogun, Toyota Landcruiser and Nissan Patrol are similar - or even bigger in some cases.

Interestingly, none of these vehicles, capable though they are, can legally tow a wide bodied Hobby in the UK.  For that, you need a towcar with a gross vehicle weight of at least 3500kg.  My understanding is that you don't need a tacho for any vehicle unless it is used for the carriage of goods.

Cheers
Andrew

 

Post last edited on 16/10/2007 18:52:04

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Yep quite correct, my V8 Discovery with a max gross kerbweight of 2825kg it can tow upto 3500kg so combined trainweight of 6325kg, but can't tow a piddly little Hobby because they are too wide.

Quote: Originally posted by snowy747 on 15/10/2007

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Insurance shouldn't be a problem, they are only interested in you towing up to your kerbweight or 100% of the manufacturers maximum tow weight.  Only if you exceed these figures are you towing illegally.

Ali

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Not so, it depends upon your licence, if your licence is dated before 1997 then the limitation of 100% of kerbweight is not there as also is the limitation to a 3500kg train weight. AS always the proviso is that what is legal is not necessarily wise.

Quote: Originally posted by Bill Lord on 21/10/2007

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Quote: Originally posted by snowy747 on 15/10/2007

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Insurance shouldn't be a problem, they are only interested in you towing up to your kerbweight or 100% of the manufacturers maximum tow weight.  Only if you exceed these figures are you towing illegally.

Ali

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Not so, it depends upon your licence, if your licence is dated before 1997 then the limitation of 100% of kerbweight is not there as also is the limitation to a 3500kg train weight. AS always the proviso is that what is legal is not necessarily wise.

 

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Yes Bill I know about the post 97 licensing stuff, I was purely commenting on why an insurance company would want to know if you were towing over 85% and up to 100%.  I have only ever been told to notify the insurance company you tow, never what you tow in relation to weight ratios.  Has anybody on here ever been asked their weight ratios out of curiosity?

It goes without saying that everybody should check their own licences and limitations within that licence.

Ali

Quote: Originally posted by snowy747 on 21/10/2007

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 Yes Bill I know about the post 97 licensing stuff, I was purely commenting on why an insurance company would want to know if you were towing over 85% and up to 100%.  I have only ever been told to notify the insurance company you tow, never what you tow in relation to weight ratios.  Has anybody on here ever been asked their weight ratios out of curiosity?

It goes without saying that everybody should check their own licences and limitations within that licence.

Ali

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My apologies if I sounded a bit short, my concern is that all too often people use the term illegal when in fact the law says nothing like that. It's just been one of my pet hates when people quote the 85% recommendation as a rule that must not be broken and another pet hate is the statements that say over 100% is illegal. I have always preferred to give the strictly legal explanation and then suggest that whilst this is the case it might not always be a good idea to push things to the limit.

My insurers have never asked me anything about the weights of caravans I tow, it's always been a you tow, no problems  reaction.

But I have never quoted the 85% as a law!  I know it is a guideline and if you read any of my posts you will know that.  Likewise I am fully aware of the 100%/manufacturers max tow figures/1997 licensing issues too.  But on this occasion my answer was purely relating to insurance and not the legalities of towing.

Ali

Quote: Originally posted by snowy747 on 22/10/2007

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But I have never quoted the 85% as a law!  I know it is a guideline and if you read any of my posts you will know that.  Likewise I am fully aware of the 100%/manufacturers max tow figures/1997 licensing issues too.  But on this occasion my answer was purely relating to insurance and not the legalities of towing.

Ali

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With a great deal of respect what you said was  

"Insurance shouldn't be a problem, they are only interested in you towing up to your kerbweight or 100% of the manufacturers maximum tow weight.  Only if you exceed these figures are you towing illegally."

I'm sure I can see in there the words only if you exceed these figures are you towing illegally,  which to me implies that if you tow at more than 100% of kerbweight you are towing illegally, as I said originally this is an incorrect statement. 

Yep amended to "whichever is highest" in the subsequent post.  I am sorry if I mislead anybody, not my intention at all.

Ali