|
 Topic: Towing weights... conflicting advice
|
Page: 1 2 3
  |
06/4/2014 at 10:39pm
Location:
Outfit:
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 11/2/2014 Platinum Member 
Forum Posts: 1061
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
Well yes, because there does not appear to one that does, only the ones I have linked to that don't & as they are .gov.uk websites they must be definitive, how could they not be, unless somebody can find any other .gov website that states otherwise?
|
07/4/2014 at 9:41am
Location: Blackburn Lancashire
Outfit: Coachman Laser 650 and Discovery
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 06/2/2009 Diamond Member 
Forum Posts: 2137
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
No need for me to check, Michael. It's not my car and not my problem. Just a bit of general advice.
Jim
|
07/4/2014 at 1:48pm
Location: Northern Ireland
Outfit: Sterckeman Alize Concept CP480
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 21/4/2011 Diamond Member
Forum Posts: 7957
Tent Reviews: 1
| Site Reviews Total: | 93 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 8 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 9 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 8 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 50 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 49 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 52 |
|
Try the 'what tow car.com' website ... sorry can't give you a link at present ... bad location!
|
07/4/2014 at 9:27pm
Location: Llanidloes Powys
Outfit: Skoda Yeti SEL4x4 +Bailey Ranger 460-4
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 28/6/2009 Diamond Member
Forum Posts: 1965
| Site Reviews Total: | 12 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 1 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 7 |
|
http://www.whattowcar.com/
|
08/4/2014 at 1:18am
Location: None Entered
Outfit: None Entered
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 07/3/2011 Gold Member 
Forum Posts: 209
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
Quote: Originally posted by michell8 on 06/4/2014
Well yes, because there does not appear to one that does, only the ones I have linked to that don't & as they are .gov.uk websites they must be definitive, how could they not be, unless somebody can find any other .gov website that states otherwise?
The .gov.uk website doesn't say you can and it doesn't say you can't. I would call that inconclusive rather than definitive. Even VOSA can't answer, I asked them the same question years ago. In the absence of a clear answer I err on the side of caution, my response was merely my own opinion as I clearly stated. If you can find an answer from a legal body then I am open to being re educated.
|
12/4/2014 at 5:50pm
Location: S Yorks
Outfit: Outlander GX3 + Challenger 490 SE
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 19/3/2013 Silver Member 
Forum Posts: 169
| Site Reviews Total: | 5 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
Its a simple rule as found here https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/car-towing-weight-and-width-limits "You must not excede the vehicle Gross train Weight The gross train weight is the weight of the fully loaded car plus fully loaded trailer and must not be exceeded. If your VIN plate doesn’t list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing."
|
13/4/2014 at 9:47am
Location: Freckleton Nr Preston
Outfit: Autotrail Apache 700
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 14/6/2008 Platinum Member
Forum Posts: 1209
| Site Reviews Total: | 8 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
I was going to hire a twin axle box trailer once, until the hire place told me it would be illegal as the plated max weight for the trailer was 2 tonne, even though I wasnt goimg to carry anything like that much.
I really wouldnt want to tow any 6berth van with a scenic, apart from the weight the size of the van would make it interesting in strong winds with a light car.
|
13/4/2014 at 2:21pm
Location:
Outfit:
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 11/2/2014 Platinum Member
Forum Posts: 1061
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
Its not illegal to tow an empty or lightly laden trailer with MAM above max tow weight of car provided trailer is towed is within car's limit. The reluctance of trailer hire company to hire it out is because it might be loaded above that weight which might possibly implicate hire company.
As pointed out earlier one needs to avoid confusion between Licence law & C&U law.
|
14/4/2014 at 12:12am
Location: None Entered
Outfit: None Entered
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 07/3/2011 Gold Member
Forum Posts: 209
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
Quote: Originally posted by michell8 on 13/4/2014
Its not illegal to tow an empty or lightly laden trailer with MAM above max tow weight of car provided trailer is towed is within car's limit. The reluctance of trailer hire company to hire it out is because it might be loaded above that weight which might possibly implicate hire company.
As pointed out earlier one needs to avoid confusion between Licence law & C&U law.
Can you provide a link to the site you found this out on? Or a PDF of the information?
|
14/4/2014 at 8:33am
Location:
Outfit:
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 11/2/2014 Platinum Member
Forum Posts: 1061
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
Theres nothing on on any .gov website ie here that suggests otherwise. Construction & use law just requires vehicle on road weight limits are not exceeded so provided trailer is lightly laden enough to be within car train weight & max tow weight then ok.
It is licence law that requires B+E licence if combined MAM are in excess of 3.5t.
Whatever else you might read on the internet, provided the .gov website says it is so, how could any enforcement officer or court argue otherwise?
|
14/4/2014 at 8:50pm
Location: Northumberland
Outfit: Knaus Sudwind 550 TK
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 06/1/2013 Diamond Member
Forum Posts: 2130
| Site Reviews Total: | 7 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 1 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 7 |
|
Quote: Originally posted by Sproz on 13/4/2014
I was going to hire a twin axle box trailer once, until the hire place told me it would be illegal as the plated max weight for the trailer was 2 tonne, even though I wasnt goimg to carry anything like that much.
I really wouldnt want to tow any 6berth van with a scenic, apart from the weight the size of the van would make it interesting in strong winds with a light car.
Similar thing happened to me with an EX! employer...
He wanted me to carry an empty fuel bowser and some oxy/acetylene bottles.
The gas supplier I went to, to collect the gas said I couldn't do it...
Even though the bowser was empty, I had no 'proof' of it being empty (cleaning cert' etc), so therefore I would be over my allowed limit of gas / oil (ADR thing). Yet under my WEIGHT limit.
-------------
Damned if I do...
Damned if I don't!!!!
|
14/4/2014 at 9:04pm
Location: None Entered
Outfit: None Entered
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 07/3/2011 Gold Member
Forum Posts: 209
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
Quote: Originally posted by michell8 on 14/4/2014
Theres nothing on on any .gov website ie here that suggests otherwise. Construction & use law just requires vehicle on road weight limits are not exceeded so provided trailer is lightly laden enough to be within car train weight & max tow weight then ok.
The flaw in that argument and as was pointed out to me today by a trailer manufacturer, the website states gross train weight is FULLY laden car plus FULLY laden trailer. Not lightly laden to stay in the limits. So if it is plated to a maximum weight which when combined with the fully laden weight of the car takes the figure above the gross train weight it is illegal even if unladen the figures add up.
|
15/4/2014 at 10:26am
Location:
Outfit:
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 11/2/2014 Platinum Member
Forum Posts: 1061
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
If you have correct licence for the vehicle that you are driving & car & trailer is within it's limits when put over a weighbridge I am failing to see what law is being broken. The wording in the link is quite open to interpretation which is the flaw in any argument. If the law is not clear then it cannot & will not be enforced.
|
16/4/2014 at 5:34pm
Location: LEICESTER
Outfit: None Entered
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 19/1/2012 Gold Member
Forum Posts: 392
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
Quote: Originally posted by Phil Ness on 14/4/2014
Quote: Originally posted by michell8 on 14/4/2014Theres nothing on on any .gov website ie here that suggests otherwise. Construction & use law just requires vehicle on road weight limits are not exceeded so provided trailer is lightly laden enough to be within car train weight & max tow weight then ok.
The flaw in that argument and as was pointed out to me today by a trailer manufacturer, the website states gross train weight is FULLY laden car plus FULLY laden trailer. Not lightly laden to stay in the limits. So if it is plated to a maximum weight which when combined with the fully laden weight of the car takes the figure above the gross train weight it is illegal even if unladen the figures add up.
What a load of utter rubbish
The LAW states that GTW refers to the maximum actual weight of the combination not the total of the plated MAM weights
This is totally legal
Vehicle
GVW 2500
GTW 4500
Trailer
MAM 3500
Vehicle loaded to actual weight of 2500 with trailer loaded to actual weight of 2000
The GTW has not be exceeded
The GVW of vehicle has not been exceeded
The trailer MAM has not been exceeded
That ticks all the legal boxes 100%
Please tell me who that manufacturer was so I can help them not to pass on such rot to others
-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor
|
16/4/2014 at 8:13pm
Location: None Entered
Outfit: None Entered
View Profile
Reply
Quote
|
Joined: 07/3/2011 Gold Member
Forum Posts: 209
| Site Reviews Total: | 0 |
|
| Site Reviews 2025: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2024: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2023: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2022: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2021: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2020: | 0 |
| Site Reviews 2019: | 0 |
|
| Site Nights 2025: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2024: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2023: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2022: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2021: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2020: | 0 |
| Site Nights 2019: | 0 |
|
I asked them for their opinion and the lad there was unsure so I directed him to what is written on the Government website. He pointed out it clearly states that Gross train weight is fully laden car plus fully laden trailer.It does not say laden or partially laden or as you say maximum actual weight of the combination .
So you are saying the website is providing utter rubbish and not quoting the correct law?
Why does the LAW use the word maximum? Why is it not worded actual weight?
Perhaps you should take it up with the Government? What chance do we mere mortals have of getting things correct if they are giving out the wrong advice?
It makes no odds to me as I tow with a Discovery, the highest plated trailer I tow is 3.5ton and my caravan is well under that so I am within my limits whatever. I would like to know the definitive answer though as would the OP.
|
|
