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Subject Topic: Legal Towing Limit
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Personmichell8
04/5/2014 at 5:32pm
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The gross train weight, ie maximum allowable weight of car/trailer together will be on V5 & plate under bonnet, usually it is max tow weight & max gross weight of car added together.

If you are weight checked then you will be run over an axle weighbridge of put on a public weighbridge & as long as gtw is not exceeded then ok. They will not detatch caravan, they will just weight whole outfit.

The manufactuer weights are simply max weights that car can possibly carry or tow. They are not any indication of what is safe to tow, that is up to driver & for caravanners the 85% guide is reasonable for reasons already stated.

Post last edited on 04/05/2014 17:51:23


PersonROG.
04/5/2014 at 6:35pm
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Quote: Originally posted by michell8 on 04/5/2014
The gross train weight, ie maximum allowable weight of car/trailer together will be on V5 & plate under bonnet, usually it is max tow weight & max gross weight of car added together.

USUALLY is the key word in that quote because in some cases the towing capacity can be more but if that more is used then the vehicle GVW is reduced pro rata



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


PersonLobeyDosser
04/5/2014 at 7:08pm
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Going by the V5;-
The max permissible mass (exc. m/c) 1844.
The Mass in service 1369
Technical permissible maximum towable mass of the trailer is 1500.

So going on these figures I could have a maximum Train Weight of 3344KG and still be legal?

-------------
Lobey.


PersonROG.
04/5/2014 at 7:40pm
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Quote: Originally posted by LobeyDosser on 04/5/2014Going by the V5;-
The max permissible mass (exc. m/c) 1844.
The Mass in service 1369
Technical permissible maximum towable mass of the trailer is 1500.

So going on these figures I could have a maximum Train Weight of 3344KG and still be legal?

1844 is the GVW
1369 is the empty weight
You need the GTW to determine the train weight which is on the plate hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame

you may find that the GVW of 1844 plus the 1500 max towing capacity is the GTW of 3344 but needs to be confirmed by the GTW

I will say it again - kerbweight, unladen weight, mass in service or empty weight all mean roughly the same thing and have nothing at all to do with towing maximum



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


PersonGrampian91
04/5/2014 at 10:32pm
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The gross train weight maybe less than the cars Max loaded weight and mat tow weight. Mine is less.

I forget the exactl figures. But its around

1564kg kerbweight. Gross laden weight 2100kg.

Max tow is 1800kg. But instead of the GTW being 3900kg
its only 3720kg.

So i can tow a heavier van if the car is lighter.

I used to go offroading a lot, Lots and lots of Landrovers towing landrovers of similar size.
Most had no issues. But occasionally someone had come amiss on the way there or back.

Usually going down a hill or when having to brake to avoid something the mass of the trailer has the upperhand on the outcome.

Personally i wouldnt go over 1200kg with the Duster.


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PersonLobeyDosser
04/5/2014 at 11:23pm
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Thanks all.

Now one last question on the towing limits.

When working out the 85% "recommendation".

Do you calculate that on the car's Kerb Weight, or the car's Gross Weight, or the car's Towing Capacity?

-------------
Lobey.


PersonROG.
05/5/2014 at 6:58am
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Quote: Originally posted by LobeyDosser on 04/5/2014
Thanks all.

Now one last question on the towing limits.

When working out the 85% "recommendation".

Do you calculate that on the car's Kerb Weight, or the car's Gross Weight, or the car's Towing Capacity?

Kerb weight is used as that is a fixed point of reference but in reality the recommendation is not to be more than 85% of actual towing vehicle weight but that can only be accurately done if using a weighbridge



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EX LGV & B+E instructor


Personlisterdiesel
05/5/2014 at 10:08am
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Our Discovery 2 is 2750kg gross maximum weight, 2200kg unladen, with a maximum towing weight of 3500kg (braked trailer)

There are restrictions on the number of passengers you can carry if the trailer is at the maximum weight, you cannot go maximum weight on the car AND the trailer at the same time.





Peter


Post last edited on 05/05/2014 10:47:17

Post last edited on 05/05/2014 10:47:34


PersonLobeyDosser
05/5/2014 at 10:20am
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-------------
Lobey.


Personlisterdiesel
05/5/2014 at 10:48am
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I've just updated my last post, I missed out the panel for the towing weights.

These are all from the Owner's Handbook.

Peter


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Personthebroons30
05/5/2014 at 10:57am
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Quote: Originally posted by LobeyDosser on 05/5/2014




Does the V5 give you a mass in service figure as that includes 90% fuel and 75kg for the driver.

Calculate 85% of that figure for the recommended maximum caravan MTPLM figure.

Do you have a new caravan in mind ?


PersonLobeyDosser
05/5/2014 at 12:00pm
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Quote: Originally posted by thebroons30 on 05/5/2014
Quote: Originally posted by LobeyDosser on 05/5/2014



Does the V5 give you a mass in service figure as that includes 90% fuel and 75kg for the driver.

Calculate 85% of that figure for the recommended maximum caravan MTPLM figure.

Do you have a new caravan in mind ?



Yes it does and my present van's MTPLM comes in under this figure.

I don't, at present, have a new van in mind.
However, just knowing that the Dacia Duster 4X4 will tow up to 1500KG gives me wider scope for the future if we do decide to go for a new van with a better layout.

-------------
Lobey.


Personiank01
05/5/2014 at 2:24pm
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Quote: Originally posted by LobeyDosser on 04/5/2014Okay, My Dacia Duster has a Kerb Weight of 1369kg.
Under the 85% rule that would be 1164kg.
But it says that the Duster has a Legal Towing Limit of 1500kg.

So, can I tow up to 1500kg or must I stick to the Kerb Weight of the vehicle?


There is no such thing as a 85% rule. It is only a guideline. The outfit would be perfectly legal even if you only have a B licence.
There are no laws regarding the maximum towing weight of a vehicle as long as you do not exceed the gross train weight.
Our 4 x 4 has a gross weight of about 2800kg but can legally tow 3500kgs. Many people or farmers legally tow horse boxes although the horse box weighs more than the towing vehicle.


PersonROG.
05/5/2014 at 6:21pm
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Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 05/5/2014
There are no laws regarding the maximum towing weight of a vehicle as long as you do not exceed the gross train weight.

Not quite correct

If the manufacturer has stated a max towing capacity then exceeding that can be prosecuted under C&U reg 100 in a court of law should it be deemed unsafe

Insurance companies will often void insurance if a listed max towing capacity has been exceed



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


PersonROG.
05/5/2014 at 6:45pm
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The 85% GUIDE is for caravans and is generally given to newbies to try and keep them safe
The guide recommends that the actual weight of the caravan should not be more than 85% of the actual weight of the towing vehicle but without a weighbridge handy that is not possible so the guide uses fixed weights which are the lowest weight the towing can be and the highest weight the caravan can be
Kerb weight of towing vehicle and MTPLM of caravan are the two weights used

EXAMPLE

Towing vehicle
GTW 3800
GVW 2000
Kerb weight 1500
Towing capacity 1800
Weight at time of towing caravan 2000

Caravan
MTPLM 1500
MIRO 1250
Weight at time of being towed 1500

Using the method of kerb weight and MTPLM the percentage is 100%

Using the actual weights the percentage is 75%

Driving licence category required for that example is B because GVW 2000 plus MTPLM 1500 does not add up to more than 3500


I have not taken into account any transfer weight via the hitch from the caravan to the towing vehicle in that example




-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


Personvwalan
05/5/2014 at 7:56pm
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Quote: Originally posted by ROG. on 05/5/2014
Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 05/5/2014 There are no laws regarding the maximum towing weight of a vehicle as long as you do not exceed the gross train weight.

Not quite correct

If the manufacturer has stated a max towing capacity then exceeding that can be prosecuted under C&U reg 100 in a court of law should it be deemed unsafe

Insurance companies will often void insurance if a listed max towing capacity has been exceed



thats why a fifth wheeler you can drop a 7.5 ton truck to 3,500kg gvw and it keeps its train weight of about 11ton . ideal for pre 97 licences with b+e.


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vwalan



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