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Subject Topic: A small engine ?
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PersonMonsterBear
20/12/2014 at 9:35am
 Location: Ross-on-Wye
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What needs to happen is caravans get lighter. With smaller engines and a drive to lighter cars caravans must follow suit.


Personleon copa
20/12/2014 at 1:18pm
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I wonder how many will still be on the roads in ten years time .


Personalpiner
20/12/2014 at 4:38pm
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The 1.9 ltr d audi engine pushes out 170 bhp and has 8 gears
and there lies the secret of its excellent use for towing.

Post last edited on 20/12/2014 16:44:18

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alpiner


PersonJTQU
20/12/2014 at 4:43pm
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Quote: Originally posted by MonsterBear on 20/12/2014

What needs to happen is caravans get lighter. With smaller engines and a drive to lighter cars caravans must follow suit.


I suspect that will only come from buyers settling for less in size and or equipment?
Not sure how ready buyers are to do that; whenever makers float a basic small van on the market it does not grab enough sales to remain there long.
I find it difficult to see how much weight can be saved in a box made of polystyrene clad with a foil of aluminum and 2 or 3 mms of ply lining, sitting on a zinc plated folded steel chassis; unless it is smaller or has not the outfit we buy today?


Personlisterdiesel
21/12/2014 at 12:24pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 20/12/2014
But the diesel may have more torque and low down where you need it. It will be geared lower also.

I had petrol and diesel versions of the Mondeo. Petrol one had more BHP. But the diesel has way more torque and tows much better.
Its a more relaxed tow, Less gearchanges.


Not much in it, diesel is 232ft lbs at 1950rpm, V8 is 250ft lbs at 2600.

We could make the V8 work really hard when towing the big trailer by holding on to a gear (5-speed manual) while our son's V8 was overheating his (4-speed) auto box with less of a load behind.

The TD5 is fine at lower weights, but is struggling at the top weight, which it outside most tugger's usage anyway.

Peter


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Persondinkum
21/12/2014 at 4:29pm
 Location: crewe
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Lighter caravans will have to come. Legislation governing fuel consumption will force vehicle manufacturers to make more fuel efficient engines. It's not just about capacity. One of the most efficient, low friction engine configurations is a three cylinder, turbo charged diesel.
Big passenger aircraft are using more and more lightweight materials with steel, aluminium and titanium in the very high stress components. With the cost of currently conventional caravans pretty high, perhaps the engineers/ designers should look at using these newer materials? Older caravans were often lighter were they not? Sprite Alpine 4/5 berth even with steel chassis were fairly light for the size. Ours lasted well too. I had to re-glue and staple the furnture frames but by that time they were ancient. Anybody got actual comparitive weights ancient and modern (caravans)?

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cramming for my finals in the twilight zone


PersonRogerGoff
21/12/2014 at 4:31pm
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Quote: Originally posted by leon copa on 20/12/2014
I wonder how many will still be on the roads in ten years time?

Its odd how cars today still last much the same amount of time as cars of 40yrs ago for completely different reasons. 1970s cars fell apart from rust & after about 10-12yrs it wern't worth the cost of welding them anymore but mechanical repairs were cheap & easy enough for the home mechanic. Nowadays the bodies don't rust but after 10-12yrs major mechanical repairs can be not financially worth doing so car still gets scrapped.

Probably best cars were built in the 1990s when less prone to rust but mechanical repairs were not so difficult/costly.


Personnavver
21/12/2014 at 9:45pm
 Location: West country
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The limiting factor to car age now is often the on board computer or ECU. Bodywork and engines seem to outlast them.

Lighter cars are going to use less fuel especially in traffic etc with stop start use. Accelerating a big lump uses a lot more fuel than a light car.

Our Fiat Panda has 4 comfy seats and loads of room inside and I'm 6'4" tall. The only limitation is the boot size. Other than that it's as good as a larger car except its slow on the motorway. It has more drag than a larger car.

The problem is you use a larger engine so need more power to accelerate the extra weight. The extra power and torque need a larger transmission chain to handle it and so it goes on. Constantly adding weight to power the extra weight.

Think light car with small engine and you have the makings of something fuel efficient.

Caravan manufacturers have got to get real and foresee cars getting lighter and make caravans to suit. They should also think about the drag factors and make them folding. Fuel consumption towing a caravan is mostly used dragging that great empty box of air through the air at 60mph. Think of the force of a 60mph wind on that box, it will need a lot of power.

Our little Dandy weighs only 500kg fully loaded but opens up to a 14' by 6'3" space. Towing is an absolute dream and I really don't know it's there behind the Mondeo. Fuel consumption is hardly affected.

I think folders like the Goburs are similar although a bit heavier. The effort of erecting them is really very little and is only a few minutes longer to set up than a caravan. The more relaxed drive more than compensates for that.


Personmattnicholls
13/9/2015 at 9:37am
 Location: None Entered
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I am looking to replace my Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 petrol engine with the new Qashqai 1.2 turbo (2015 model) petrol engine but having doubts about if it is man enough to tow a trailer tent.

My trailer tent has a total loaded weight of 750kg and is braked, the boot will be full with gear and a small roof box. This is how we travel with my Zafira when going camping.

The BHP of my Zafira is 99 bhp with the Qashqai being 113 bhp

Appreciate comments before making an expensive mistake!!


Personbilly
13/9/2015 at 9:53am
 Location: North Essex
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You need to look at the torque figures for both engines. You will probably find the torque figure for the 1.2turbo is better than the 1.6 so the 1.2 will be a better towcar than the 1.6. Obviously most will say buy the diesel version but presumably there is a reason you prefer petrol?


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Personmattnicholls
13/9/2015 at 9:59am
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Thanks billy x

the torque for the 1.2 is 190 Nm 140 lb-ft

The torque for the 1.6 is 150 Nm 111 lb-ft

the reason for the petrol is we only go camping 5 or so times a year and for the rest of the time using the car around town and short distances so only do about 8k a year mileage


Personbilly
13/9/2015 at 10:02am
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Better torque figures for 1.2 so should tow at least as well as your present car.


PersonBaileyjake
13/9/2015 at 10:29am
 Location: West Midlands
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My wife's 1.6 zafira is 105 BHP and feels a lot more torquey than my previous 120 BHP scenic. Not sure if anyone tows a caravan with a diesel engined zafira but I would think the length and the kerb weight would make it a reasonable tow car?

I guess for those enthusiastic enough about caravans the future will mean buying second hand 4x4s or commercial vehicles rather than brand new family cars.

I worked in the engine test industry for a short while and ford people told me the requirement for small swept volume engined with high power outputs was driven by the fleet car market an taxation classes.


Personbilly
13/9/2015 at 11:51am
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Quote: Originally posted by Baileyjake on 13/9/2015
I guess for those enthusiastic enough about caravans the future will mean buying second hand 4x4s or commercial vehicles rather than brand new family cars.

I worked in the engine test industry for a short while and ford people told me the requirement for small swept volume engined with high power outputs was driven by the fleet car market an taxation classes.

You guess wrong, I guess. Diesels will be around for many yrs yet & they will remain an option for all cars suitable for towing caravans. Its only Europe that uses diesels in a big way for cars & light commercials. For the rest of the world that does not tax it's road fuel at over 100% diesel is for trucks. Engines are designed for world markets not for the benefit of the UK fleet market & UK tax regime.


Personalpiner
13/9/2015 at 2:26pm
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The latest 1.9ltr Audi Diesel produce 185bhp with 7 speed gearbox, i think that should be enough for you.
The cars have been maid lighter though through the use of more alloy body parts

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alpiner


PersonBaileyjake
13/9/2015 at 3:37pm
 Location: West Midlands
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Pffffft.......none of us can predict the future but looking at trends, trends, cars are getting lighter with smaller swept volume engines. My German colleague has a new blue motion passat estate. It is much lighter than his previous Octavia VRS and previous passats. You wouldn't be able to tow a decent sized twin axle caravan with it. Indeed he wants to buy a knaus transporter caravan and it's close on 100% on kerb weight. Then consider the xtrail once a favourite of caravanners, then the new outlander all lighter. I think the fleet market is a bigger sector than the caravan towing market.



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