Home Log in or Register

Message Forums

Welcome Guest

Reception - All Forums

Caravans and Caravanning - Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice

Topic: Towable Weights?

Page: 1 2

Baileyjake

11/4/2017 at 1:34pm
Location: West Midlands
Outfit: Coachman Amara 570 6 + Shogun SG4

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 06/1/2015

Platinum Member

Forum Posts: 846

Site Reviews Total:	11

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	1
Site Reviews 2019:	1
Site Reviews 2018:	2

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	4
Site Nights 2019:	2
Site Nights 2018:	2

It would be just legal to tow the empty caravan with your car but not loaded with a normal compliment of caravan gear. The tow weight of your car is 1000kg & must not be exceeded

just want to chip in here, the rated Max braked tow weight of your car and the caravans MPLM is what the Policeman or department of transport guy is going to look at.

you will not be able to legally tow your 1300kg coachman.

i have a MPLM 1600kg coachman which last time i weighed it was actually 1564kg and even with a car with a kerb weight 1835kg and max tow of 2000kg it isn't particularly stable but that's just me being hyper sensitive i guess.

you then need to consider the kerb weight of the car and the MPLM of the caravan. its not the law, the law only looks at the max braked tow and the MLPM both figutes are easilly found by the inspectors on the rating plates.

you need the caravan to be lighter than the car by some margin the 85% rule is not a bad one. if you dont then if it all goes wrong the caravan will steer the car rather than the car steering the caravan.

i think your focus may not be a suitable car for a caravan.

i don't believe you need to take your B+E though. for example my old bailey ranger was 1295 MPLM and a Honda crv would be 2200kg max gross weight which would take you to 3495kg which is 5kg under the threshold for the B+E test. these are 2 off the top of the head examples.

-------------
First van bailey ranger 550/6
Now the proud owner of a coachman amara

Opensauce

11/4/2017 at 3:56pm
Location:
Outfit:

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 25/1/2010

Diamond Member

Forum Posts: 4530

Site Reviews Total:	13

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	0
Site Reviews 2019:	0
Site Reviews 2018:	0

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	0
Site Nights 2019:	0
Site Nights 2018:	0

If you get stopped in a weight check you drive the outfit over an axle weigher. Provided axle weight of caravan does not exceed max tow weight of car & car axle weights are correct then all good. Mtplm does not matter for weighing. All that matters is that all axle weights are correct which they will be if empty caravan is being towed & it weighs less than car max tow weight. Mtplm is only a consideration for licence.

Wendy106

11/4/2017 at 4:48pm
Location: West Midlands
Outfit: Lunar Lexon and Mondeo estate

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 28/8/2013

Gold Member

Forum Posts: 224

Site Reviews Total:	4

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	0
Site Reviews 2019:	0
Site Reviews 2018:	0

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	0
Site Nights 2019:	0
Site Nights 2018:	0

But for licence restrictions, i.e.the 3500kg limit, this is worked out on gross plated weights; so if the combination plated weights are more than 3500, then b+e would be needed, irrespective of state of loading.

That's what I was told in an email from VOSA, anyway.

Alan Partridge

11/4/2017 at 5:05pm
Location: Herts
Outfit: Eriba Troll & Mitsubishi Outlander

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 27/9/2006

Gold Member

Forum Posts: 219

Site Reviews Total:	8

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	0
Site Reviews 2019:	0
Site Reviews 2018:	0

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	0
Site Nights 2019:	0
Site Nights 2018:	0

Wendy106 is correct, the gov.uk advice is very clear, even without a letter from VOSA or whatever its name is now.

Licences issued from 1 January 1997

If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January "1997 you can:

- drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
- tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

MAM is the limit on how much the vehicle can weigh when it’s loaded.

You have to pass the car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier."

Post last edited on 11/04/2017 17:23:08

Opensauce

11/4/2017 at 5:19pm
Location:
Outfit:

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 25/1/2010

Diamond Member

Forum Posts: 4530

Site Reviews Total:	13

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	0
Site Reviews 2019:	0
Site Reviews 2018:	0

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	0
Site Nights 2019:	0
Site Nights 2018:	0

Correct. Mtplm is only relevant for licence purposes. It is quite legal to tow an empty caravan with Miro less than car max tow weight even if Mtplm exceeds max tow weight. Provided one is licenced to tow the outfit.

Actual weights apply for construction&use purposes.

Max authorised weights(MaM) apply for licencing purposes.

Baileyjake

11/4/2017 at 5:39pm
Location: West Midlands
Outfit: Coachman Amara 570 6 + Shogun SG4

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 06/1/2015

Platinum Member

Forum Posts: 846

Site Reviews Total:	11

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	1
Site Reviews 2019:	1
Site Reviews 2018:	2

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	4
Site Nights 2019:	2
Site Nights 2018:	2

Correct. Mtplm is only relevant for licence purposes. It is quite legal to tow an empty caravan with Miro less than car max tow weight even if Mtplm exceeds max tow weight. Provided one is licenced to tow the outfit

hw would the insurance company look at it in the event of a claim presuming the caravan is trashed and a weight cannot be taken?

what if its a 3rd party claim where a life is lost or someone is paralyzed where the claim extends to £1000000s?

-------------
First van bailey ranger 550/6
Now the proud owner of a coachman amara

boblakelly

11/4/2017 at 5:44pm
Location: None Entered
Outfit: None Entered

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 03/4/2017

Standard Member

Forum Posts: 10

Site Reviews Total:	0

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	0
Site Reviews 2019:	0
Site Reviews 2018:	0

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	0
Site Nights 2019:	0
Site Nights 2018:	0

Maybe I just go down expensive route get a new second hand car and go for my B+E haha

Alan Partridge

11/4/2017 at 5:50pm
Location: Herts
Outfit: Eriba Troll & Mitsubishi Outlander

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 27/9/2006

Gold Member

Forum Posts: 219

Site Reviews Total:	8

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	0
Site Reviews 2019:	0
Site Reviews 2018:	0

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	0
Site Nights 2019:	0
Site Nights 2018:	0

I choose always to be legal up to the MAM - it's all very well arguing the finer points of the law, and if you are just weighed it might be fine if you underload the trailer and keep it all within limits, but upset an ignorant copper and try to argue that the sum of the MAMs can be higher than the car's plated train weight and still be legal - I wouldn't.

That's not an anti-police comment - detailed knowledge of the rules is not the norm and that's before you get into any grey areas.

Then there are the practicalities - caravan payloads are commonly pathetic anyway, and the MIRO doesn't even include gas and battery which need to come out of the payload.

Grampian91

11/4/2017 at 6:31pm
Location: Midlands
Outfit: Mondeo Avondale Gram

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 11/5/2008

Diamond Member

Forum Posts: 6893

Site Reviews Total:	2

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	0
Site Reviews 2019:	0
Site Reviews 2018:	0

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	0
Site Nights 2019:	0
Site Nights 2018:	0

The issue is the caravans weight could be quite a bit out, someone wrote into one of the caravan magazines complaining their caravan weighed far more than the brochure figures.

Instead of having the 250 - 300kg of loading capacity they only had 60kg. The caravan was almost 200kg heavier than the brochure stated.

Luckily they could get the manufacturer to increase the caravans max laden weight on the chassis plate and they had a suitable car. But your may well find your 1000kg unladen van actually weighs more than that already.

Especially after xx number of years where a little damp may have got into the wooden frame.

When there was uncertainty on the towing rules for post 1997 drivers i printed out the DVLA page stating she could tow more than 750kg as long as the max weights for car+van was less than 3500kg.

Opensauce

11/4/2017 at 6:40pm
Location:
Outfit:

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 25/1/2010

Diamond Member

Forum Posts: 4530

Site Reviews Total:	13

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	0
Site Reviews 2019:	0
Site Reviews 2018:	0

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	0
Site Nights 2019:	0
Site Nights 2018:	0

Quote: Originally posted by Baileyjake on 11/4/2017
How would the insurance company look at it in the event of a claim presuming the caravan is trashed and a weight cannot be taken?

what if its a 3rd party claim where a life is lost or someone is paralyzed where the claim extends to £1000000s?

Insurance companies are not half as bad as people think they are. In the event of an accident & claim for caravan then obviously claim would be from caravan insurance. If driver stated caravan had been empty & under max tow weight for car & it could not proved otherwise then insurer would simply decide whether write off or repair caravan. They would not refuse the claim because they have no grounds for doing so.

To explain about 3rd party cover. When caravan is towed the whole outfit is covered for 3rd party claims on car insurance. Read t&c's of your caravan insurance. It does not cover 3rd party claims while towing as car insurance provides it.

If car & caravan does not comply with the law then insurance might refuse to pay out policy holder for his losses but provided C&U regs are complied with & driver is correctly licensed then insurer cannot refuse claim.

At all times though the 3rd party cover remains to cover 3rd party claims. However much the insured driver has broken the law, drink/drive, unlicensed etc which might well cause driver's claim for his own losses to be refused his insurer cannot refuse to pay 3rd party claims.

The MIB can only chase driver personally for 3rd party claims if he has no insurance at all.

Post last edited on 11/04/2017 18:53:26

Lynm

12/4/2017 at 11:09am
Location: Ceredigion
Outfit: Swift Archway Sport 21 2

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 30/5/2005

Platinum Member

Forum Posts: 568
Tent Reviews: 3

Site Reviews Total:	93

Site Reviews 2024:	4
Site Reviews 2023:	2
Site Reviews 2022:	1
Site Reviews 2021:	2
Site Reviews 2020:	0
Site Reviews 2019:	3
Site Reviews 2018:	6

Site Nights 2024:	14
Site Nights 2023:	8
Site Nights 2022:	6
Site Nights 2021:	9
Site Nights 2020:	0
Site Nights 2019:	13
Site Nights 2018:	6

There are some great online tools for matching a car and van.

-------------
Lyn xxx
Harbury Fields March
Moreton in the Marsh March/April
Hawthorn Cottage April
Lamb Cottage April
Somers Wood May
Maxstoke Hall June
Houghton Mill June
Lamb Cottage August
Somers Wood September
The Meadows, October

Baileyjake

12/4/2017 at 1:33pm
Location: West Midlands
Outfit: Coachman Amara 570 6 + Shogun SG4

View Profile

Quote

Joined: 06/1/2015

Platinum Member

Forum Posts: 846

Site Reviews Total:	11

Site Reviews 2024:	0
Site Reviews 2023:	0
Site Reviews 2022:	0
Site Reviews 2021:	0
Site Reviews 2020:	1
Site Reviews 2019:	1
Site Reviews 2018:	2

Site Nights 2024:	0
Site Nights 2023:	0
Site Nights 2022:	0
Site Nights 2021:	0
Site Nights 2020:	4
Site Nights 2019:	2
Site Nights 2018:	2

my point was that if your insurance company sees the caravans MPLM is 1300 but your cars max tow is 1000kg then they can use it as an excuse not to payout. for me its too much of a grey area to entertain.

a car with a 1000kg max tow is not going to make a good tow car anyway and towing 999.99kg will most likely kill it quickly.

the OP is looking at a new car.

he doesn't need to do his B+E as we have explained but if he wants to then thats his choice. it certainly opens a lot more options to him.

-------------
First van bailey ranger 550/6
Now the proud owner of a coachman amara

In order to post a reply you will need to register, or if already registered please log in here

Prev Next
Jump To Page: 1 2
Quick Links - All Forums - Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice - Top of Page

Printable version

Latest News, Discounts and Competitions see all...

6890 Visitors online !

Free UKCampsite.co.uk Window Sticker - Recommend to Friend - Add a Missing Campsite

[Message Forums] [Caravan Sites & Camping] [Company Listings] [Features / Advice] [Virtual Brochure] [Shop!]
[Reception] [Competitions] [Caravans & Motorhomes For Sale] [Event Diary] [Contact Us] [Tent Reviews]

Please note we are not responsible for the content of external sites & any reviews represent the author's personal view only. Please report any error here. You may view our privacy and cookie policy and terms and conditions here. All copyrights & other intellectual property rights in the design and content of this web site are reserved to the UKCampsite.co.uk © 1999 - 2024

UKCampsite.co.uk
2024 Advent Calendar

24 Daily Prizes PLUS a Christmas Day Star Prize worth £999

Request a Reminder