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Subject Topic: New Towing Proposals
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via mobile 17/8/2021 at 4:09pm
 Location: Worcestershire
 Outfit: Roller Team 746
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Yep. One of the many benefits of brexit. Working blokes getting a decent wage finally. And no I am not a socialist, bizarrely I am an employer. But once things level out and various industries here in the uk can start charging realistic rates and paying staff a decent wage (without the tax payer having to subsidise wages with universal credits for working people, the better off we will all be. Hopefully brexit will be the catalyst that ends the race to the bottom, seen most clearly in road haulage.


via mobile 17/8/2021 at 6:17pm
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All this does is revert to pre 1997. Car drivers could tow over 3.5tonne & you could take your first HGV test in an artic & go straight to HGV1. The licence changes in 1997 were presumably to make things safer on the road but now apparently the proposal is to go back to less safe?

Post last edited on 17/08/2021 19:27:40

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via mobile 17/8/2021 at 6:23pm
 Location: Worcestershire
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But the trouble is billy, instructors are teaching people to pass the test, not how to tow or drive a lorry. I run a fleet of iveco 3.5 tonne vans towing Ifor 3.5 tonne trailers. Most New passes are appalling at anything other than driving the test route…. We almost have to start at the beginning and teach them how to do it in the real world.


via mobile 17/8/2021 at 6:33pm
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No change since I took my HGV1 test in 1973 then? 2 week course in an empty Leyland with 6 speed gearbox. Passed test first time on Friday & there I was at 4am the next Monday morn sitting in a fully freighted Atkinson Borderer 13speed Eaton constant mesh box & no clue but I learnt fast.

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17/8/2021 at 6:53pm
 Location: East Herts
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Quote: Originally posted by billy on 17/8/2021
No change since I took my HGV1 test in 1973 then? 2 week course in an empty Leyland with 6 speed gearbox. Passed test first time on Friday & there I was at 4am the next Monday morn sitting in a fully freighted Atkinson Borderer 13speed Eaton constant mesh box & no clue but I learnt fast.



Similar to me then Billy except mine was PSV in 1973. Taught by the bus company in a Bristol double decker with crash-gearbox. 10 day course plus a week learning the routes, then I was driving passengers on a route between north London and Southend or Canvey island. I passed first time too. Still got the licence.



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18/8/2021 at 10:33am
 Location: Lancashire
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I think that’s standard with all new drivers, they only start to learn once they pass their test, the amount of class 1 drivers we get in here that can’t reverse is unbelievable.

Funny I could go backwards better than forwards once, as I was the yard shunter at 18 in a trailer rental yard, best of it was it was an old 70’s ERF with no power steering and the yard was always rammed to the extent that I used to empty the yard each morning so that we had some working space. I had arms like Popeye then.

Bessie


18/8/2021 at 10:59am
 Location: East Herts
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I know what you mean Bessie, none of the buses I drove in the 70s had power steering. Most of them were built in the 50s and 60s. Crash-boxes and vacuum brakes! Parking them up at night in the depot was fun, as you could only just get them all in if they were parked exactly right.


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Colin


18/8/2021 at 11:34am
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I had an HGV licence and never had any tests or training!
I passed my car test in a 1939 Morris 8 series E when I was 17 and within a few months was driving an ex army AEC Matador and a Thorneycroft Nubian for a civil engineering company on construction sites.
saxo1


18/8/2021 at 1:45pm
 Location: London
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On the face of it, a retrograde step, but in reality as has already been said people are taught to pass a test, not to actually drive!

From the truly abysmal driving standards that are prevalent today, I'm not at all sure passing a test has much bearing on driving safely! Some of the worse driving I see on the road is from solo driving instructors - the basic skills just aren't there!

Biggest worry is that the numpties will now be let loose with a rather significant 4.25 tonnes of combined tow vehicle and trailer (a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM) which have a host of their own specific characteristics, as opposed to a solo tow vehicle which is crammed to the gills with all sorts of modern tech safety devices to counter poor driving skills, trailers are way behind on the tech and still require good practice and good skills to keep them safe!

My caravan is probably as tech loaded as it gets, damped tow hitch, ATC and suspension dampers, correctly loaded it tows like a dream under all the conditions (even accidentally over 60mph) I've encountered over the thousands of miles I've done since I bought it, BUT badly set up as it was when I first picked it up from the dealers, it was an absolute liability at even 40mph! - the ATC was working hard on the short and slow journey home, without the ATC it would have been a nerve wracking 20-30mph crawl home! I've plenty of towing experience so knew all the signs before things got out of hand.

Whenever you see videos/photos of towing accidents these days, more often than not, it'll be a very competent tow car like a Range Rover towing an appropriate trailer, but what is obviously lacking is driver knowledge and skill, including how to safely set up and load the trailer. Not at all sure how well that was taught anyway, but plenty on this forum who don't seem to have the knowledge!

Will the change in regs make a real world difference, I'm not sure they actually will, I think the whole tuition and test process is already deeply flawed enough to allow dangerous drivers to legally drive.


18/8/2021 at 2:51pm
 Location: East Herts
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You are probably right with a lot of that Monty15. Like with an MOT the test is only really valid on the day.

When I took my first car test aged 17, I failed first time which is not that surprising as I'd never had any formal training. I'd had a 3-wheeled car since just after my 16th birthday and I was mostly self-taught on that. My father had accompanied me occasionally, but the most stupid thing of all was that I was often accompanied quite legally by friends who had passed their test on a motorbike or scooter. I knew how to drive my car but they didn't!

When I went on to take my test on a 4-wheeled car and failed, I decided to have a proper driving lesson with an instructor, and to this day I can still remember his words to me. He said "you can drive as well as anyone I've ridden with, but you haven't a clue how to pass a driving test". I had another lesson in which he gave me a few tips then I took my test and passed.

A few years later I learnt to drive a bus, taught by a proper instructor, and passed first time.


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Colin


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18/8/2021 at 3:33pm
 Location: Worcestershire
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I never had any driving instruction lessons as I started driving at age 15 in 1964 so by the time I was 18 I was already a very competent driver. Passed my test first time and within a month of turning 18. It was my grand father than taught me to drive in his 1959 Anglia.


18/8/2021 at 7:43pm
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Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 18/8/2021
I never had any driving instruction lessons as I started driving at age 15 in 1964 so by the time I was 18 I was already a very competent driver. Passed my test first time and within a month of turning 18. It was my grand father than taught me to drive in his 1959 Anglia.



My first 4-wheeled car was a 1957 Anglia. Dreadful 3 speed gearbox.

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Colin


18/8/2021 at 8:23pm
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Some great posts on this thread, sorry i posted and didnt comment .... Busy at work driving 44 tonne tankers around the site i work on.

I know from chatting to other drivers that there is a huge backlog of driving tests . Both ordinary car tests and HGV / PSV .
My own son has been told he wont get his driving test until the winter at the earliest.

I see daily some brilliant driving and some awful driving, especially reversing !
I pessonaly think that a towing test is a very good idea as it gives you a better awareness of what you are doing.
Would i want my 19 yr old son to jump into a big van or a disco (etc) and tow a big trailer with no training ..... No definatley not.


19/8/2021 at 7:45am
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Quote: Originally posted by Monty15 on 18/8/2021
Biggest worry is that the numpties will now be let loose with a rather significant 4.25 tonnes of combined tow vehicle and trailer (a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM) which have a host of their own specific characteristics, as opposed to a solo tow vehicle which is crammed to the gills with all sorts of modern tech safety devices to counter poor driving skills, trailers are way behind on the tech and still require good practice and good skills to keep them safe!



What about current numpties with only a B licence that are towing? Whether you have a unit under or over the 3500kg will make zero difference if you do not take the necessary precautions and obey the relevant speed limits Has it being proved that doing the B+E has reduced the accident rate? IMHO the B+E is generally a waste of time and resources. The B driving test should include specific questions regarding towing. I passed my driving test in 1967 and never towed a caravan until I was in my late twenties for about 1000 miles for one trip and then never towed a caravan again until 2004. I had no issues because I guess I must have that thing that seems to be missing with most people and that is common sense and respect for other road users.


19/8/2021 at 9:11am
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When I was working we had over a hundred vehicles that towed nearly every day ranging from 1 ton tool trailers to 4 wheel lo-lode trailers transporting small excavators etc.
None of the drivers had any tuition and I can only recall 2 incidents of the trailer becoming detached and one, on a large cable drum trailer, a wheel came off after it had been serviced, that was over a thirty nine year period.
The main cause for concern on this forum appears to be concerning the inability to reverse a caravan and incorrect loading etc.
Even if all is done correctly and speed limits observed a caravan is inherently unstable, even a crosswind or an overtaking vehicle can induce the start of a snaking situation, you have to experience this in real life, a test can't replicate theses situations.
saxo1


19/8/2021 at 6:01pm
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Some years ago, we were heading down a motorway with our caravan, going quite nicely at the 60 limit. Imagine my shock when we overtaken by a disco with an enormous boat attached. Went past so fast it was clearly well in excess of the 70 limit even.



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