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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 20/8/2021

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Hydrogen, doesn’t make sense for small cars and vans. You fill it up with hydrogen, then you put it through a fuel cell to create electricity which then drives an electric motor and / or charges a battery

BEV plug in and charge the battery.   Drive the motor it cuts out the fuel cell which is the middle man so adds to the overall inefficiency.    Add to this most hydrogen today is produced in a very energy intensive way and CO2 releasing way.

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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 20/8/2021

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Just a couple of links showing the relative efficiencies of BEV vs Fuel cell.   There are lots more are out there.   If you can point to studies showing the opposite please do. As far as I am aware fuel cell vehicles do have a batteries both to store regenerative power and provide an extra boost during acceleration.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/08/hydrogen-or-battery--that-is-the-question.html#

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-battery-powered-vehicles-stack-hydrogen.html

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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 20/8/2021

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My other concern is that as far as diesel consumption in particular is concerned, cars are only the tip of the iceberg. If you think of all the other things that we have become totally dependent on, diesel engines power the vast majority of them. Cars are virtually the only things left that run on petrol, apart from very small usually hand-held tools and appliances. Diesel powers virtually everything else, so until a viable alternative to the diesel engine is found, we are stuck with it, and nothing else comes close. What else could power a 100 ton mobile crane, a bulldozer, or a massive cargo ship? Trains and trams are about the only means of transport where electricity is a viable long-term means of propulsion, but that is only because they don't rely on carrying their energy source onboard in most cases. However, not all lines are electrified and we are still even building some without electrification.

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Quote: Originally posted by martin734 on 20/8/2021

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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 20/8/2021

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Just a couple of links showing the relative efficiencies of BEV vs Fuel cell.   There are lots more are out there.   If you can point to studies showing the opposite please do. As far as I am aware fuel cell vehicles do have a batteries both to store regenerative power and provide an extra boost during acceleration.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/08/hydrogen-or-battery--that-is-the-question.html#

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-battery-powered-vehicles-stack-hydrogen.html

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Here you go https://observer.com/2020/11/hyperion-xr1-hydrogen-cell-car-battery-debate/

https://www2.deloitte.com/cn/en/pages/about-deloitte/articles/pr-fcevs-to-be-cheap........

https://www.eqmagpro.com/lithium-ion-batteries-vs-hydrogen-fuel-cell-which-is-the-........

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles-future-autos/story?id=74583475

https://www.businessinsider.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-teslas-biggest-threat-2019........

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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 20/8/2021

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Quote: Originally posted by martin734 on 20/8/2021

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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 20/8/2021

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Just a couple of links showing the relative efficiencies of BEV vs Fuel cell.   There are lots more are out there.   If you can point to studies showing the opposite please do. As far as I am aware fuel cell vehicles do have a batteries both to store regenerative power and provide an extra boost during acceleration.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2019/08/hydrogen-or-battery--that-is-the-question.html#

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-battery-powered-vehicles-stack-hydrogen.html

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Here you go https://observer.com/2020/11/hyperion-xr1-hydrogen-cell-car-battery-debate/

https://www2.deloitte.com/cn/en/pages/about-deloitte/articles/pr-fcevs-to-be-cheap........

https://www.eqmagpro.com/lithium-ion-batteries-vs-hydrogen-fuel-cell-which-is-the-........

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles-future-autos/story?id=74583475

https://www.businessinsider.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-teslas-biggest-threat-2019........

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I think we will have to agree to differ.   Although I notice you haven’t addressed the relative inefficiency of FCV in a well to wheel basis.

I ve had a BEV for the last 6 months and these are my observations. Firstly I doubt, unfortunately , that battery electrics will make good towing vehicle's.   This is purely due to range.   All aspects power, torque and stabilty due to weight make them ideal candidates. Everyone goes on about the time to charge. 99.9% of the time mine takes about 1 minute that’s 30 seconds to plug in and 30 seconds to unplug in the morning.   On cheap rate electricity it also costs less than 1.5p per mile to drive.   Then add in the quietness and smoothness of motor is remarkable. Both my wife and I have independently remarked how crude our 8speed automatic tow car feels in comparison.   I would suggest any who hasn’t driven one try’s one before they knock it.   If it does turn out that hydrogen does turnout to be the future and there is a filling station within 150 miles then I will embrace it like a shot.

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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 20/8/2021

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More than 200 miles per day?   Well within the range of my BEV today. Not some maybe technology tomorrow.    

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