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Subject Topic: My first drive of an electric car
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02/10/2023 at 12:44pm
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02/10/2023 at 4:37pm
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Love the poster Stuart! That has always been my way of doing things, which is probably why I am now running a 15 year old car and a 31 year old caravan. While I can keep them both going, I will. Why buy new (even if I could afford it, but I can't) when what I have already got will do the same job?


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Best Regards,
Colin


02/10/2023 at 5:28pm
 Location: Northamptonshire
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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 02/10/2023
Apparently the problem of rubber from tyres is worse with EVs than it is with conventional cars, as they tend to be heavier and have bigger tyres. I do about 5,000 miles a year these days, less than half what I used to, especially when I was still working.



The issue with rubber from tyres being worse is an oft repeated statement, but needs qualification.

The amount of rubber released from a tyre is directly proportional to wear. The faster it wears, the quicker the release. Tyre wear does depend on weight. An EV of a given size weighs more than the ICE counterpart.

Eg. XC40 D4 AWD 1735kg, XC40 T8 AWD (EV) 2188kg

For comparison a Hyundai Santa Fe Diesle AWD weighs in at 1,865 - 2,059 kg

But it depends on the size of the car
Eg Pug 208 1.2 Petrol 1233kg,   208 1.5d Diesel 1265, 208 Electric 1564kg

The electric 208 weighs significantly less than the diesel XC40.

But heavier cars have tyres that are reinforced and have a tougher compound to improve lifetime.(See extra load tyres).

Wear also comes from hard acceleration and deceleration, particularly wheel spin. EVs are incredibly good at controlling power - their traction control is vastly more reactive than ICE cars due to the nature of the power generation and drive train (measured and adjusted 1000s of time a second, not 10s of times a second.

So the question is really - how long does a set of tyres last?
My old XC90 2,129kg (185hp, 400Nm) would get through a set in about 12,000 miles.
My previous V60 D6 1800kg (290hp, 670Nm), about 18,000 miles.
My current Polestar 2 2227kg (408hp, 660Nm), about 23,000 miles.

So - per mile driven? The EV is way better!






via mobile 02/10/2023 at 8:39pm
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I quite agree with the comments about not buying new. With the mondeos we have had over many years, we have always gone to a local independent dealership where we could buy a used mondeo with either 10000 miles on it or one year old.
Even this ev is nearly four years old and we reckon with four years left on the battery and a possible life of 15 years, neither of us will be capable of driving by then.


04/10/2023 at 8:53am
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ID3 and ID4 have one significant difference, which most may not notice, but I did as soon as I saw the first video of one, which helpfully was on a rainy day.

in the desire to save money VW didn't change the wipers to RHD, the ID3 has LHD wipers which is enough for me to stay well away, even before the spare wheel issue.

I was in western Scotland this summer and was speaking to someone from the local recovery company. The vast majority of his jobs were rescuing hire vehicles with no spare wheels.



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04/10/2023 at 1:16pm
 Location: Midlands
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Daveyjp - the trouble is that the rescue is only half the story. Where does he then take them?

- To a nearby tyre depot, where there's no guarantee of the right tyres being in stock, or any availability that day, or the next? And what if it's after 5pm and they don't open until the next morning?
- Or home, when you then still don't have any transport?

Versus the 15 minutes or so that it takes to change a wheel yourself, if the car has a spare. I'm afraid that in my view, there is no contest and anything less than a space saver spare is unacceptable.

Tdrees - thanks for your comments, it's useful for me to know which of my issues are model-specific and which are wider.

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"Don't wait for the perfect moment. Take the moment and make it perfect."


via mobile 04/10/2023 at 1:29pm
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Having the tyres in stock is an issue. They need different tyres from your usual ICE and they are not cheap at all.

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Hypercamp Alaska
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04/10/2023 at 1:47pm
 Location: Northamptonshire
 Outfit: Bailey Unicorn S3 Vigo + Polestar 2
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They do not need to be special tyres any more than has always been suggested by a manufacturer.

My Polestar came with Continental Premium Contact 6 "POL" marking. The POL is the Polestar fit with acoustic foam. But it can use any tyre that 245/40R20 99Y.

They often have "low noise" or "acoustic" tyres (which sometimes include foam inserts for sound deadening) but apart from that, any tyre that has a suitable size, speed and load rating is absolutely fine.

Interestingly, the speed rating is often lower in an EV than an equivalent ICE car, as an EV may be limited to a lower speed to avoid very high speed (and very inefficient) driving.

Now - granted - mine is a big wheel, and low profile high performance tyre, but its also a 400hp car. Nothing is cheap at that end of the market.


via mobile 04/10/2023 at 1:58pm
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They recommend low rolling resistance tyres for range.
According to Michelin, weight etc comes into play as well

https://www.michelin.ie/auto/advice/ev-guide/electric-car-tyres#:~:text=For%20bran........

Also, disregarding what manufacturers say, independent researchers have said normal tyres wear 30% quicker, have less noise and are built to withstand the increased do torque.
Of course, ICE tyres fit and there is no law against fitting them, but...

-------------
Hypercamp Alaska
Vango Force 10 mk3
Vango F10 Helium 1
Coleman Cobra Pro 3
Coleman Cobra 2
Naturehike Star River 2
Eureka! Solitaire
Dutch army goretex bivvy bag


04/10/2023 at 4:28pm
 Location: Northamptonshire
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Ideally all tyres should be low rolling resistance - for economy (a different way of saying range).

Weight is important - that's what the load rating is for. It MUST be adhered to, but a 2T EV weighs the same as a 2T ICE. The tire choice is the same.

And a tyre will have different characteristics for higher performance cars. A car with 660NM of torque needs a performance tyre, irrespective of the drive train. That's measured in the grip and speed rating.

Tyres have a noise, grip and economy rating. Picking ones that are good at all three cost more, but it's just a consumer choice.

The point is, the tyre industry has been making tyres that are 100% suitable for EVs for years. The addition of low noise (accoustic tyres) formats has given more choice, and it's a choice I absolutely go with as the reductions in cabin noise at speed on a good road surface is excellent.

But if you need to get rescued and have to fit a non-low noise tyre - it's absolutely fine.


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04/10/2023 at 7:13pm
 Location: Midlands
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The appropriateness and indeed cost of new tyres for EVs is not my main concern. My point is that surely it's madness having to rely on a rescue service if you puncture or damage a tyre, and being lucky to get a replacement the same day, when it should be perfectly possible to include a spare wheel and tyre inside the car that could be changed in a matter of minutes. The question in my original post was why a spare wheel could not be fitted at the front end of the car, given that it still has something that resembles a bonnet but has no engine under it.

Any argument that the omission of a spare wheel (weighing maybe 25kg?) saves weight and/or emissions is a load of .... (insert your own choice word as I'm probably not allowed) when you consider that even a Fiat 500e weighs 1.4 tonnes. The cost argument doesn't really stack up either when a VW dealer can sell a wheel and tyre for an ID-3 for £399 - not a lot in relation to the cost of a £36k car.

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"Don't wait for the perfect moment. Take the moment and make it perfect."


via mobile 05/10/2023 at 12:00am
 Location: Northamptonshire
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A valid concern. Though not an EV thing. Most new cars don’t have spare wheels, just an in inflator, gunk and an emergency phone number.
And many EVs don’t have any space under the bonnet either. The Fiat 500e certainly doesn’t, the electric motor and inverter is there. In ours we fitted a tray to keep the charging cables, but no room for a spare…


05/10/2023 at 10:04am
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See the Polestar 2 won the Electric and Hybrid section in the 2024 CAMC Towcar Awards.

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XVI yes?

As well is two words!
How does a sage know everything about everything? or does he? or does he just think he does?
Remember, if you buy something you bought it, not brought it.


via mobile 05/10/2023 at 11:11am
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I wouldn't consider an ev at the moment as they are too expensive and most won't tow our van.
We just changed our diesel Santa Fe for a self charging hybrid Tucson.
We couldn't get a diesel and the Santa Fe hybrids are a bit pricey!
The Tucson will pull 1650 kg , more than our van. It's a bit smaller but more than large enough for 2.
With 230 hp it certainly goes well. It is 6 speed automatic.
Economy solo 45 to 50 mpg towing 25. Only one tow so far. It will get better with more mileage. So similar to the diesel.
The handbook says not to tow until it has done 1200 miles, which we did.

It's under £40 k so lower VED too.
The self charging Tucson has an extra 30hp but can only tow 1350kg! Plus its more expensive.
My wife popped to the shops the other day and said it was in EV mode most of the way! Very quiet but it beeps when reversing.
The dealer ordered us a spare wheel and tools which fit in the well under the boot floor. It had a plastic oddments tray there which lifts out.
It's a full size steel with jack.
So far pretty pleased with it.


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DS-There's more to life than football!!!


via mobile 05/10/2023 at 11:15am
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Just got an offer for my I40.
Working from home, I don't need the car. My wife has an EV and I have a motorbike that does 68mpg.

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Hypercamp Alaska
Vango Force 10 mk3
Vango F10 Helium 1
Coleman Cobra Pro 3
Coleman Cobra 2
Naturehike Star River 2
Eureka! Solitaire
Dutch army goretex bivvy bag


via mobile 05/10/2023 at 11:39am
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Quote: Originally posted by 664DaveS on 05/10/2023
I wouldn't consider an ev at the moment as they are too expensive and most won't tow our van.
We just changed our diesel Santa Fe for a self charging hybrid Tucson.
We couldn't get a diesel and the Santa Fe hybrids are a bit pricey!
The Tucson will pull 1650 kg , more than our van. It's a bit smaller but more than large enough for 2.
With 230 hp it certainly goes well. It is 6 speed automatic.
Economy solo 45 to 50 mpg towing 25. Only one tow so far. It will get better with more mileage. So similar to the diesel.
The handbook says not to tow until it has done 1200 miles, which we did.

It's under £40 k so lower VED too.
The self charging Tucson has an extra 30hp but can only tow 1350kg! Plus its more expensive.
My wife popped to the shops the other day and said it was in EV mode most of the way! Very quiet but it beeps when reversing.
The dealer ordered us a spare wheel and tools which fit in the well under the boot floor. It had a plastic oddments tray there which lifts out.
It's a full size steel with jack.
So far pretty pleased with it.




Great car the Tucson Dave, I have the PHEV, 263BHP Ultimate, the towing capacity would be no good for a larger van, but ours is only a small 2 berth so fine for us. Would I get a PHEV again? Not sure yet, although we have had it for 18 months.

Plus side though, on a recent trip to Exeter, 50 round trip starting with a full battery, I got 86 mpg there, saving battery, and 236mpg coming back, sensible driving. Pulled onto my drive when it switched to full HEV when battery down to 16%. It cost around £2.90 to charge it back up. So for the shorter trips it is a big saving on fuel.

Another example two days ago, trip to Mole Valley Farmers, 23 mile round trip, 999mpg there and back, with an estimate of 12 miles left on EV only.

Horses for courses I guess. But a great car to drive/tour, been as far as the Pyrennes, around 25mpg towing.



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