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Quite right boff, the strange thing is that having had both a disco and a rangey I can vouch for their reliability issues, yet I still love 'em!

All I was trying to do with my postings was to put things in context from an objective point of view. Many posts seem to follow the format of "my car tows and is the greatest", yet from experience I can attest that just because it's a good tow car, doesn't mean it's the best.

I guess I get a little tired of the myth that surrounds some popular makes, in my experience few cars are either completely good, or completely bad...

Quote: Originally posted by John Fuller on 26/7/2012

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I guess I get a little tired of the myth that surrounds some popular makes, in my experience few cars are either completely good, or completely bad...

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You make a good point Peter, I certainly agree about parts prices and ease of fixing. The Audi was a case in point: It didn'y go wrong very often but if it did you rarely got away with a bill for less than £500, and that's from an Audi specialist rather than a main dealer!

I've got no problem with the reliability issue on Landies, it was more a desire to get people to open peoples minds that there might be more tow-cars than just X-trails and Discovery's. They're both good cars for sure but not necessarily the be-all and end-all as some people might have us believe.

I love cars and have rarely owned or driven a car that didn't have something to admire about it, and in my job as an Emergency Response Driving Instructor for the Fire Brigade and Police I've been trained to be objective and analytical about these things. So I just thought I'd share what I'd found in the hope it might help some one else or at least spark a debate!

John

I am a big LR fan, having cut my teeth on military landiesI

I have owned a S3 and a classic Range Rover which I used for off roading, green laning etc. They are awesome off road, and relatively simple to fix, with cheap parts.

However I can't fault our Sorento as a tug, similar performance and spec to Disco 2, but cheaper and reliable.

Apparantly they can do the business off road too!

Still have asoft spot for LR-I woulsd have a 110 Defender but SWMBO is not keen!

We are a landrover family through & through. We were towing with a TD5 Defender 110 which will get you anywhere in any weather!

 We have now, however, just purchased a Discovery 3 which has given towing a whole new outlook on ease & comfort for us. Anyone thats ever been in a defender will understand where i'm coming from!!

We tow a twin-axle and the stability and ability of the discovery is amazing, well worth a look at.

Yes I think the Disco 3 represented a real step forward fo LR, a much more modern car in every way. And having taken the Landy products off road I can testify to their prowess in the sticky stuff.

But the areas where LR products (until the Disco3) was things like solo(non-towing) driving. To be honest there's not much between a Disco 2 and a Terracan other than the T'can having more power, but drive a Disco 2 and then a Touareg or X5 and it's like night and day on tarmac.

Someone mentioned the Landcrusier earlier but I found that there was a big difference between the 3litre L'cruiser and the 4.2 Amazon. Both are fabulous tow-cars but I thought the front suspension and steering were no better and in some wways, not as good as, the Disco for the 3 litre cruiser. The Amazon is just awesome and the most rediculous thing off-road you've ever seen!

I took an Amazon round a course (off-road) that a DiscoTd5 had got stuck on and in the Amazon it was as smooth and drama free as driving round an Asda car park!

The detail where I found that the Touareg seperated itself from the others was it's ability to smother even the tiniest push/pull from the van on the back. It uses active differentials that don't react to grip like conventional diffs, they actively redistrubute power to keep everything on the straight and narrow. It's not a huge difference and certainly doen't mean cars without it are no-good, but it does elevate its towing performance. You've got to try it to believe it.

as for the Sorento, you're right 664dave, it's a great tow-car. However, have you had youors re-mapped? My parents had theirs done and the difference is just incredible!

It's not that it turns it into a firebreathing monster- it doesn't, it's just as if that's what the car should have been like all along. I'd swear theey'd done a complete engine transplant: smoother, quiter, torqier and vastly more refined. Just amazing.

do you ever see an old honda on the roads......NO

do you ever see old landrovers on the roads....YES

IF JAP CARS ARE FANTASTIC WHY DO THEY NOT LAST..?

Quote: Originally posted by freeatlast on 29/7/2012Another year of car reliability surveys, and once again Land Rover come out bottom. 7 times as many failures as the best car, a Honda. If you want a reliable car, it has to be Japanese, or Korean.

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Quote: Originally posted by listerdiesel on 29/7/2012

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Quote: Originally posted by freeatlast on 29/7/2012Another year of car reliability surveys, and once again Land Rover come out bottom. 7 times as many failures as the best car, a Honda. If you want a reliable car, it has to be Japanese, or Korean.

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Before you run off with the idea that this is a 'gold-plated' survey, read the blurb that comes with it.

The data are provided by Warranty Direct, provider of warranties, presumably for used vehicles.

Looking at the figures in depth, the results just don't reflect real-life experiences, certainly not around our friends and colleagues.

I would suggest that the figures are slanted as Warranty Direct policy holders are MORE likely to claim on a policy just to get something back for the premiums they have paid.

Mileages are all in the 40k to 50k ranges, so I am sure these are used cars, not new, and as second owners I have to question how much servicing and repairs they get compared with the new users who had the first period of manufacturer's warranty.

BMW, Audi, Saab, Mercedes all more unreliable than Vauxhall?

Look at the results and make your own minds up, rather than take it as read.

Peter

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Quote: Originally posted by boff on 30/7/2012I'm not sure what you are saying here.  Why is a Landrover owner more likely to claim than anyone else?   Are you saying that Landrover owners as a bunch are more dishonest?

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Quote: Originally posted by agde on 29/7/2012

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do you ever see an old honda on the roads......NO

do you ever see old landrovers on the roads....YES

IF JAP CARS ARE FANTASTIC WHY DO THEY NOT LAST..?

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See plenty of Surf's, landcruisers, pajero's and shoguns! All jap 4 x 4's. Look whats running out in the middle east on news reports ect, usually a hilux pickup full of soldiers, beaten to death and old but still going strong!

Just goes to show they do last. It's usually the fords and vauxhalls that have rotted away.

middle east has a bit better weather than us...and as you say beaten to death.................

lots of mk 1 mk 2 escorts. capri's.. cortina's.. sierra's. in the uk.... dont start me on transit vans everywere all over the world and all age's...just like landrovers still going..