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Subject Topic: Towing ratio of 93% for first caravan.
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28/1/2014 at 4:13pm
 Location: Rochdale
 Outfit: Hymer Nova 470 Mondeo titanium 140tdc
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Grampian your signature is out of date, the condition that the caravans MTPLM should not exceed the kerbweight was removed 12 months ago.
I know that it is best practice to ensure that the trailer weighs less than the car but it is no longer a legal requirement.

-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


28/1/2014 at 4:31pm
 Location: Midlands
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Maybe. Except i have not seen that in B&W on the GOV websites.

ROG? I think also mentioned this and posted a letter which was still vague on the matter.
I doubt the person that wrote knew 100% either.

And its bad practice to tow a caravan above the cars kerbweight.

Its going to stay.



28/1/2014 at 5:20pm
 Location: Rochdale
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 28/1/2014Maybe. Except i have not seen that in B&W on the GOV websites.

ROG? I think also mentioned this and posted a letter which was still vague on the matter.
I doubt the person that wrote knew 100% either.

And its bad practice to tow a caravan above the cars kerbweight.

Its going to stay.





Have a look here, spelled out simply and without any possible misinterpretation.



https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car

-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


28/1/2014 at 5:25pm
 Location: Midlands
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Have you read that link?

Quote:
as long as it is no more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle





28/1/2014 at 6:14pm
 Location: Rochdale
 Outfit: Hymer Nova 470 Mondeo titanium 140tdc
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I missed that one, I will search again. The whole thing is anamolous. Someone passing the test now does not have that condition imposed.

Have a look here http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/motoring/driver-licensing/buses-lorries-trailers-and-caravans/the-driving-licence-you-need-to-tow-a-caravan-or-trailer.htm

And here



http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/motoring/driver-licensing/buses-lorries-trailers-and-caravans/towing-trailers-or-caravans-with-vehicles-up-to-3-5-tonnes.htm

Post last edited on 28/01/2014 18:22:17

-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


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28/1/2014 at 6:51pm
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The latest .gov webpages contain several unexplained differences to the previous ones making them ambiguous. Unless the laws have been actually changed then they remain the same as before but obviously if current webpages contain inaccuracies then it is unlikely anybody will be procecuted for breaking those laws, although the laws will still stand.

-------------
Regards, Jack+Jon.


28/1/2014 at 7:25pm
 Location: Rochdale
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The laws were changed in January 2013


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


28/1/2014 at 8:25pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Mondeo Avondale Gram
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Law may have changed yet the old information is still there.

And if thats the page they lookup if you get stopped then your in trouble.

No matter what the law says though its still not advisable to tow at 100%.

My signature keeps it safe and legal.



28/1/2014 at 8:35pm
 Location: LEICESTER
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It is not bad practice to tow above the vehicle kerbweight but it could be unsafe to tow a caravan where its heavier than the vehicle

The kerbweight to mtplm advice is only used because that gives the worse case scenario and used fixed weights

There is now no law or rule for towing on a B or B+E licence that states towing anything above vehicle unladen weight is illegal and that actually makes sense not to have such a law because many modern vehicles are designed to tow well above their GVW let alone unladen weight

The way its put in your signature suggests its law or a rule and not simply advice

-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


28/1/2014 at 8:47pm
 Location: Lichfield
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So in practice then, the B or B+E licence category totally eliminates the chance of the tail wagging the dog scenario?


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28/1/2014 at 8:54pm
 Location: LEICESTER
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Quote: Originally posted by tango55 on 28/1/2014So in practice then, the B or B+E licence category totally eliminates the chance of the tail wagging the dog scenario?



Of course not .... !!

Good safety advice is always appreciated but it must be realistic and not give the impression of a law or rule where one does not exist

Safety advice for caravans is always going to be different than for other types of trailer because of their unique design

-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


28/1/2014 at 9:47pm
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According to the link Janus posted it still applies though.

Although i have said before it depends on which page google finds when you search.

GOV sites are generally crap.



28/1/2014 at 11:20pm
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But according to the more recent link I posted it does not.


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


29/1/2014 at 9:28am
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What the DVLA have done is to post the rules from 1997 - 2012 and the current rules from 2013 and that is where the confusion comes from

For B+E some are under the 1997 - 2012 rules and some are under the 2013 on rules - the 3500 mam trailer limit

B licence rules changed from 2012 but for some weird reason they left the old rules visible

The law does not give more to new drivers and less to older drivers which is why the revoked unladen/kerb rule is the same for all

-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


29/1/2014 at 10:23am
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The new regulations for B licences came into force on 19th Jan 2013.

The ones from the current GB DVLA site shows the removal of the need for the tow car to weigh more than the trailer BUT only for those passing their test after 19th Jan 2013.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories (look at Cat B)

The one for Northern Ireland (NI) which Janus had the links to still mentions the need for the tow car to weigh more than the trailer, no mention of the restriction being lifted.

 http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/motoring/driver-licensing/information-on-vehicles-you-can-drive/the-vehicles-you-can-drive-or-ride-and-minimum-ages.htm (look at Cat B - Description)



29/1/2014 at 11:16am
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Quote: Originally posted by ST1100 on 29/1/2014

The new regulations for B licences came into force on 19th Jan 2013.

The ones from the current GB DVLA site shows the removal of the need for the tow car to weigh more than the trailer BUT only for those passing their test after 19th Jan 2013



THAT is the misconception I was referring to

Try finding the law in the RTA - you will find that it revokes the previous unladen/kerb rule and the reason is that it would be unfair to impose harsher rules on drivers who got B licences between 97 and 2012 than those who passed after 2012

If you really think otherwise then test it in court or at least talk to a barrister who knows how to read law

The biggest mistake to read a DVLA page and make assumptions on that - good for a starting point though


-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor



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