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Subject Topic: Caravan Nose Weights
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06/2/2018 at 6:54pm
 Location: East Midlands
 Outfit: Coachman VIP 575.Santa Fe
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If I recall correctly the difference of moving the mover was 7kg.
Minus 3.5 off the front and add 3.5 kg to the back weight. .
The dealer moved the spare wheel carrier further back but I decided to put the spare under the fixed bed even further back and easier to get to in case of puncture. This helped keep under max of 100kg.But crass design from Bailey. Most cupboard storage was foreword of the axle.

-------------
Mister G


06/2/2018 at 7:54pm
 Location: Hampshire
 Outfit: Fleetwood Vanlander
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There is a motormover on either-side of the front axle

But has some of you mentioned earlier, priorty is pucker measuring device and no 6in blocks of wood

Empty everything that moves, out of the van and start from there.

I do still find the whole nose weight thing a little crazy, it is no doubt from what everyone has said, it is a serious concern.
Yet it is under reported and as with the Bailey example, all rather hidden away by the manufacturer.

Sure, it all changes when you start loading all the extras but, I still think manufacturers could model unladen and laden their vans to give buyers an indication. I don't see why they cannot given maximum laden weights in front and behind the axles to give X nose weight, at least then, when you add extras and personal belongs in various parts of the van you can better calculate impact
In fact, Kerb weights etc all seems a little academic if your vehicle cannot take the vans nose weight.



06/2/2018 at 7:56pm
 Location: Hampshire
 Outfit: Fleetwood Vanlander
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I suspect Baileys are not the only ones playing games


06/2/2018 at 8:25pm
 Location: Ilkeston. Derbyshire
 Outfit: Disco 4 Unicorn Barcelona 4
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mark 1 Barcelona.
Four motor movers
Self leveling system fitted.
Gas bottles in front locker.

Mark 2 Barcelona.
Twin motor movers front of axle.

And both have fell flat on the hitch due to nose weight.

Mmmm



-------------
Cheers
Ray

Discovery 4 & Bailey Barcelona 4







07/2/2018 at 7:39pm
 Location: West country
 Outfit: Mondeo
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The difficulty is you have a van weighing 1.5 tons or so, balanced on an axle somewhere near the middle. Moving the axle an inch either way will have a big effect on the noseweight.

Yet the axle position is fixed quite early on in the design process. Lots of things depend on the axle position. Wheel arches, chassis design, fridge placement etc.

They offer various options most of which affect the noseweight. Spare wheel, front chest, battery, roof light, solar panel, hitch stabiliser etc.

They don't know what the limit of your car will be.

Unfortunately, manufacturers strive to keep the MIRO down as much as possible but do seem to forget the noseweight. It just doesn't seem to rate much attention in the brochures and showroom.


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07/2/2018 at 9:24pm
 Location: Teesside
 Outfit:  Mitsubishi ASX4
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Quote: Originally posted by Ray Clayton on 06/2/2018

Freeeatlast.
A motor mover in a forward position of the front axle does affect nose weight.





Do the maths. It will make very little difference as it is far closer to the CofG than the hitch. At a rough guess, looking at a side view of your van it will be about 10 times closer to the CofG than the hitch thus a 30kg motor mover will add just over 3 kg to the noseweight. Peanuts in real terms, especially compared to the weight of 2 gas bottles in the front locker.

But then you believe what you want to believe.


07/2/2018 at 10:01pm
 Location: Lichfield
 Outfit: Coachman Amara 450
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I have to agree with 'freeatlast' but in simple terms you don't have to do any maths at all, you need a bit of logic thinking. Think of a see-saw, level it up then place a 30kg. weight in the centre. The plank won't move but if you place the weight a foot one way from the centre then it will slowly tilt from the centre of gravity (CofG) taking so many seconds for the plank to touch the ground. Do the same again but place the weight directly on the end instead and the plank will decend much quicker because the heavier weight at the end has more effect in relation to gravity than just off centre which is the same principal as a motor mover being just in front of the axle.


07/2/2018 at 10:34pm
 Location: East Midlands
 Outfit: Coachman VIP 575.Santa Fe
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If the manufacturers handbook or manual says the chassis max it should not be exceeded or warranty and insurance could be at risk.

-------------
Mister G


08/2/2018 at 9:49am
 Location: Teesside
 Outfit:  Mitsubishi ASX4
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Quote: Originally posted by tango55 on 07/2/2018
I have to agree with 'freeatlast' but in simple terms you don't have to do any maths at all, you need a bit of logic thinking. Think of a see-saw, level it up then place a 30kg. weight in the centre. The plank won't move but if you place the weight a foot one way from the centre then it will slowly tilt from the centre of gravity (CofG) taking so many seconds for the plank to touch the ground. Do the same again but place the weight directly on the end instead and the plank will decend much quicker because the heavier weight at the end has more effect in relation to gravity than just off centre which is the same principal as a motor mover being just in front of the axle.



The CofG is actually in front of the axle, otherwise the nose weight would be zero. In all likelyhood, it will be almost exactly over the motor mover itself if placed in front of the wheel. Therefore zero effect on the noseweight.


08/2/2018 at 3:45pm
 Location: Northern Ireland
 Outfit: Sterckeman Alize Concept CP480
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And it's not only the nose weight that's critical .... the weight on each wheel is, too.

Having an inbalance between your two wheels can play havoc with the stresses and strains on the chassis under towing conditions ... and add to the safety problems.

I use one of these to ensure as good an all round balance as I can ... I was very surprised, the first time I used it, to see how 'out of balance' the whole system was!

There are different models depending on the caravan weight.

Post last edited on 08/02/2018 15:54:22


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08/2/2018 at 6:37pm
 Location: Cheshire
 Outfit: Elddis Xplore 304
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Sorry to jump on this post but I have a newbie question regarding nose weights, so apologies in advance if this is a stupid question! We’re picking up our new Xplore 304 in May and the technical specs state the ‘maximum hitch weight’ as being 100kg and yet the MTPLM is 1100kg. I’m reading that the guidelines are 5-7% of MTPLM which would be only 55-77kg max so which do you go by? Thanks in advance for any advice.


08/2/2018 at 6:55pm
 Location: Royal Forest of Dean
 Outfit:  Swift Major 4SB
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You need to go by the limit on the car or 100kg whichever is the lower. I expect that 70kg or thereabouts would be a good target for a very safe tow but it depends on the noseweight limit of the car. The 100kg figure is the maximum that the stabiliser hitch and chassis can take.

Rob


08/2/2018 at 6:57pm
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Quote: Originally posted by slj76 on 08/2/2018
Sorry to jump on this post but I have a newbie question regarding nose weights, so apologies in advance if this is a stupid question! We’re picking up our new Xplore 304 in May and the technical specs state the ‘maximum hitch weight’ as being 100kg and yet the MTPLM is 1100kg. I’m reading that the guidelines are 5-7% of MTPLM which would be only 55-77kg max so which do you go by? Thanks in advance for any advice.



You will need to check what is the maximum weight your tow vehicle can take on the tow bar. Check your cars manual, and do not exceed this value.


08/2/2018 at 7:21pm
 Location: Ilkeston. Derbyshire
 Outfit: Disco 4 Unicorn Barcelona 4
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Freeeatlast. Stated
***But then you believe what you want to believe. ***

I will thank you Freeatlast.

Assume the distance between the wheel hubs is
1000 mm and in balance, the centre of mass is 500
mm, directly between the wheels. This will be our
datum, so in balance it will equal zero.So, we can now work out the moments:-
It can be seen that by moving the total mass of the
caravan forwards by 31.25 mm, the loading on the
front axle increases by 50 Kg and on the rear
reduces by 50 Kg. Moving the total mass of the
caravan forward by 62.5 mm will increase the load
on the front axle to 900Kg and reduce the rear to
700Kg.
Now, in practice, we can’t move the total mass of
the caravan forward, what we can move is the
items we store in the caravan.

Then again that may be wrong as well.




Post last edited on 08/02/2018 19:31:01

-------------
Cheers
Ray

Discovery 4 & Bailey Barcelona 4







08/2/2018 at 7:51pm
 Location: Cheshire
 Outfit: Elddis Xplore 304
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Quote: Originally posted by Rob and Tina on 08/2/2018
You need to go by the limit on the car or 100kg whichever is the lower. I expect that 70kg or thereabouts would be a good target for a very safe tow but it depends on the noseweight limit of the car. The 100kg figure is the maximum that the stabiliser hitch and chassis can take.

Rob



The car is 90kg so no issues there. As you say 70kg is probably about right as this is around the 7% rule. I thought 100kg seemed pretty high. Many thanks.


08/2/2018 at 8:49pm
 Location: East Midlands
 Outfit: Coachman VIP 575.Santa Fe
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I have not had time to read all above so apologise if I am repeating it. The car and towing gear also have a limit for the downward pressure which is in effect the van nose weight.
Those I have owned have been 100 kg max but I think they can be lower so need to check.

-------------
Mister G



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