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Subject Topic: Dacia Duster
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09/3/2021 at 9:53am
 Location: North Essex
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Hi Fran. The issue with the few bi fuel cars supplied new appears to be that the Lpg tank is quite small. Usually fitted where the spare wheel would go the tank is about the size of a wheel & tyre so not very big. My first sight to Lpg powered cars goes right back to the 1970s. In Colchester plenty of the local Taxis were fitted with Lpg conversions. They were mostly Ford Granadas & Cortinas & had large cylindrical tanks in the front of the boot which took up a fair amount of boot space but gave as much range as the petrol tank.

There was 1 garage in the town that fitted the conversions. They worked well enough & you could switch between gas & petrol at will. The garage was the only supplier of Lpg in the town. The gas at the time was under half the price of petrol so the conversion cost about £200 at the time paid for itself in a few months. Another advantage with cars that were doing up to 1000miles a week it doubled the life of the engine. The oil stayed clear for 1000s of miles because the gas was far cleaner than petrol.

My next encounter was when I had a T25 campervan. Autogas was by then widely available & a T25 specialist garage did a conversion fitting a large tank under the rear seat again giving a good range on gas.

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Every day should be a holiday!


09/3/2021 at 12:58pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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In the late 1970s and early 1980s I ran a couple of Ford Transit trucks on petrol and LPG. The LPG tanks were fitted under the bed of the trucks on the opposite side to the petrol tanks, so they didn't take up any load space at all. I was very pleased with the performance and consumption figures, and those trucks were going all over the country all the time, with the flat-bed one often towing a big trailer. That truck was the earlier of the two and had the old V4 engine, which actually ran better on LPG than it did on petrol. The other slightly later one with a straight 4 engine and luton-box body had a tiny drop in performance on LPG but insufficient to worry about.



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09/3/2021 at 4:06pm
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Yep billy the LPG tank on the Duster is located were the spare would be, although at 38lt that’s not a bad size and gives around 250 miles range, there also the 50lt petrol tank as well, together that gives quite an impressive range, to be fair though you would mostly wan’t to run on LPG to get the best economy.

I would still add a Space Saver Spare, as the Bi-Fuel does not come with one.

The Bi-Fuel Duster is a 1lt engine, and the towing spec says 1,300kg so should be ok for a 1,100kg caravan, although it does seem a bit of stretch to me.

I think I would probably rather go for the 1.6 petrol, it’s got a little more oomph and can tow 1,500kg, going for the 1.5 diesel would probably not be the wise thing to do, even less so in five years time when I will be looking to buy.


09/3/2021 at 8:14pm
 Location: West country
 Outfit: Mondeo
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I understand that LPG gives a little less performance than the petrol but that was for conversions. For towing, you may find it a tad slow, but hey ho, when you've joined the great retired you'll have all day and it may help pass the time.

Also as petrol/diesel phases out by EVs, there will be less cheap LPG available as it is a biproduct.

If you go diesel you may find many cities charging them in clean air zones. Petrol seems to be preferred in them.



09/3/2021 at 10:11pm
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I agree navver, as much as I covet BEV’s I can see that in my life time there will be no sensible priced replacement for a fossil vehicle when it comes to towing a caravan, even a small one at that.

There seems to be no incentive for folk to get Bi-Fuel cars, especially as it seems that only Dacia are the only mainstream auto maker offering them, with the big reduction on emissions you would think there would be a big push on LPG cars.

In the U.K. LPG station locations are reducing in number all the time, although this seems not to be the case in Europe were LPG is championed.

What you say about diesels is so true, they are going to be priced out of the market with the increased running costs, in fact I am surprised they have not increased the cost of diesel to double that off petrol, but maybe that will come in the next few years.

The way I am thinking now is to aim for the 1.6lt petrol version of the Dacia Duster, it will tow a 1,100kg small caravan and a one year old model at today’s prices can be had for £10k, the economy towing a caravan will not be good, but my plan is just to tow it down to the South of France and leave it there, so after that all I will be ever towing is my small trailer.

The caravan storage firm I have been in contact with down on the Cote d Azur, are happy to take the caravan to and from the nearby campsite pitch, so at least I will have a place in the sun for my retirement years.

All work in progress, but I have a few years yet to get it sorted.



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09/3/2021 at 11:02pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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Increasing the cost of diesel is not really a viable option when you consider the number of essential vehicles that use it. It is the main fuel used by commercial vehicles, both for passengers and goods, it is used in emergency vehicles, all kinds of construction equipment, road making equipment and back-up generators. If anything I can see petrol disappearing long before diesel, as really it is only used by cars, motor cycles, lawn mowers and power tools, which could all adopt different fuels.

So much reliance is on diesel, and until a viable alternative to the diesel engine for all applications is found, it will continue to dominate.

Of course shipping uses diesel, although it is a different kind, and to get rid of diesel trains all routes would need to be electrified.


-------------
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Colin


09/3/2021 at 11:44pm
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Good point Colin, but the powers that be want to get diesel cars of the road before petrol although they are not saying that, so that could come via congestion charges and road tax specifically target at regular diesel cars and not commercial vehicles.

I think petrol cars will get a second chance, as development of synthetic petrol is well advanced and petrol cars can also run on lpg.

Back in the 1970’s when I was a kid, there were no diesel cars that I can remember apart from Black Cabs.

In fact my first Diesel company car must have been around 1995 a Ford Mondeo, well I was a sales rep, but what a racket that used to make on a cold winters morning.


via mobile 10/3/2021 at 12:18am
 Location: Shropshire
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There are places that convert petrol cars to lpg. One of my ex colleagues had a Volvo converted. He did a lot of miles so savings soon covered the cost.
He mainly filled at a local Calor depot who have a separate pump for the gas powered vehicles.
If no lpg available use the petrol.
I have seen the filling a big American RV there when I went to swap a gas bottle. The RV had a propane tank for cooking and heating.

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10/3/2021 at 7:50am
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Yep 664DaveS, my local bottled gas stockist Cheshire Gas at Bury has a LPG point price is currently 63p per litre including VAT, and there is nearly always someone filling up there car when I go to collect a refill for my 13kg Butane cylinder.

Post last edited on 10/03/2021 08:16:47


10/3/2021 at 9:54am
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QUOTE: "The way I am thinking now is to aim for the 1.6lt petrol version of the Dacia Duster, it will tow a 1,100kg small caravan and a one year old model at today’s prices can be had for £10k"

The 1.6 petrol has been replaced with the 1.3TCE,this has a max towing capacity of 1500 Kg and a has a max torque of 240 Nm at 1600 rpm.
saxo1


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10/3/2021 at 10:36am
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
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Quote: Originally posted by Francais on 09/3/2021
Good point Colin, but the powers that be want to get diesel cars of the road before petrol although they are not saying that, so that could come via congestion charges and road tax specifically target at regular diesel cars and not commercial vehicles.

I think petrol cars will get a second chance, as development of synthetic petrol is well advanced and petrol cars can also run on lpg.

Back in the 1970’s when I was a kid, there were no diesel cars that I can remember apart from Black Cabs.

In fact my first Diesel company car must have been around 1995 a Ford Mondeo, well I was a sales rep, but what a racket that used to make on a cold winters morning.



Yes that's right, very few cars were diesel in the 1970s. In fact very few vehicles smaller than a 7.5 ton truck had diesel engines, as they were noisy, smelly, and had all the performance of a constipated snail. Nobody wanted a car where you measured acceleration figures using a calendar. Then in the late 1980s, and 1990s, development of the diesel engine really took off and now it's rare to find any kind of commercial vehicle, however small with anything other than a diesel engine. I haven't had any vehicle that wasn't diesel powered since the 1990s. Diesel engined vehicles will see me out, of that I'm certain.

As for LPG, it seems to go in phases. When I ran two Transit trucks back in the late 70s early 80s, I had them on LPG and petrol, with a changeover switch on the dash. LPG seemed to be taking off, but it didn't seem to last long, possibly because of diesel engine development. Then a few years ago it seemed to be making a come-back, and now it looks like it's fizzling out again.

The simple fact is that most commercial operators, from small builders to large hauliers favour diesel and if the government does anything that increases the cost of running diesel vehicles, the cost will simply get passed on to the customer. Until someone comes up with a viable alternative to diesel engines of all sizes, including those used in bulldozers etc, the diesel engine will stay. I can't see that happening any time soon.


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Colin


10/3/2021 at 6:11pm
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Thanks for the heads up saxo1, the 1.3TCE will be interesting if that comes as Bi-Fuel as well, a little research to be done me thinks.


10/3/2021 at 7:11pm
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I I compared the overall running costs of the Bi-Fuel on 10000 miles per year over 3 years the saving would only be app £60 per year at todays fuel prices.
I I assume, if it was used on LPG for most of the time ,there may be a marginal improvement but in my case this would be swallowed up by the need for me to drive 20+ miles to the nearest LPG filling station.
The calculations were not mine they are from Fleet News.
saxo1


10/3/2021 at 8:09pm
 Location: West country
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Something that keeps nagging at me is the way sailing boats work. If you've seen the Americas Cup catamarans you will see they rise up on foils which reduces the friction of the boat moving through the water.

They manage to go at about 2.7 times the wind speed by some jiggery pokery called apparent wind.

The boat feels the true wind which is what you would feel if you stood still but also feels the wind generated by it moving through the air like you would feel on a moving bike.

If you add teh two winds together vectorially you get the apparent wind.

So with very low friction, the faster the boat goes them more apparent wind it feels so it goes faster and feels more etc etc.

There must be a way to put a sail on top of a car and using the power of its engine, generate some apparent wind to make it go faster with no more energy input.


11/3/2021 at 9:03am
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Quote: Originally posted by billy on 09/3/2021
Hi Fran. The issue with the few bi fuel cars supplied new appears to be that the Lpg tank is quite small. Usually fitted where the spare wheel would go the tank is about the size of a wheel & tyre so not very big. My first sight to Lpg powered cars goes right back to the 1970s. In Colchester plenty of the local Taxis were fitted with Lpg conversions. They were mostly Ford Granadas & Cortinas & had large cylindrical tanks in the front of the boot which took up a fair amount of boot space but gave as much range as the petrol tank.

There was 1 garage in the town that fitted the conversions. They worked well enough & you could switch between gas & petrol at will. The garage was the only supplier of Lpg in the town. The gas at the time was under half the price of petrol so the conversion cost about £200 at the time paid for itself in a few months. Another advantage with cars that were doing up to 1000miles a week it doubled the life of the engine. The oil stayed clear for 1000s of miles because the gas was far cleaner than petrol.

My next encounter was when I had a T25 campervan. Autogas was by then widely available & a T25 specialist garage did a conversion fitting a large tank under the rear seat again giving a good range on gas.


My Land Rover has an LPG conversion. It has two 50 litre tanks between the chassis rails at the back where the petrol tank used to be and I have two petrol tanks under the front seats. The LPG filler is where the petrol filler used to be and the petrol filler is under the driver's seat. Mine is an ECU controlled multi-point injection system. It can start and run completely on LPG with no noticeable lack of performance. The only noticeable difference is in fuel economy. I get an average of 15-18 mpg on petrol and average 12-16 mpg on LPG. Where I live there are quite a few garages that sell LPG and the price ranges from 56.9 pence per litre at Bournemouth Airport to 62.9 p/l at a local Shell garage. The average is about 60.9 p/l. This gives an equivalent cost of about 25 mpg compared to petrol.


11/3/2021 at 9:24am
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Yep martin734, back in 1980 I had a SWB Series 3 (HGW 306K) I think the engine was a 2.25lt petrol and I used to get 10mpg on a good day, but to be fair I did very few miles in it, as I used to commute the 10 miles to my work on my bicycle, I only kept the Land Rover for a couple of years, it was by far the biggest money pit of a car that I ever owned, but was great fun to drive, nothing else has ever come close.






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