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Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 13/4/2023

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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 13/4/2023

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I would agree with every one of your answers there, but I would add one more.

Is there an EV on the market that would meet all my needs yet cost less than £4,000 NO.

Game over for me.

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I see that as a subset of "Are EVs right for everyone? No."

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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 13/4/2023

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Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 13/4/2023

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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 13/4/2023

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I would agree with every one of your answers there, but I would add one more.

Is there an EV on the market that would meet all my needs yet cost less than £4,000 NO.

Game over for me.

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I see that as a subset of "Are EVs right for everyone? No."

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Only in terms of purchase price really. In virtually every other way an EV would probably be perfect for me. I can easily charge one at home, it would cope perfectly with virtually all of my regular use, there are some available that could easily pull my light-weight caravan, and that have sufficient room inside for my needs. Range is not really an issue for me as I rarely do extremely long journeys, and in all probability I would never need to charge it up anywhere other than at home except when I was on holiday. I would probably be just about the perfect candidate for one, but there is no way I could afford to buy one.

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Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 14/4/2023

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One could also argue (quite reasonably) that having to make a payment to travel in these zones rather than an outright ban leads to a tiered society where those who can afford to pollute continue and those who can't don't.

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Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 14/4/2023

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Of course an outright ban (which would be more effective from a clean air and health perspective) would lead to the same issue in a different way. Those who can afford a newer compliant car can continue to travel, and those who can't, don't.

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Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 14/4/2023

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Does the government "care" that they are pushing older car users out? Hard to say, but perhaps they just "care more" about the issues of air quality directly impacting peoples health.

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Quote: Originally posted by arthurdent on 14/4/2023

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If I ever see any signs of the government caring about anything other than themselves, I'll let you know

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Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 14/4/2023

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Should we try to improve the air quality in our cities? Of course we should!

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I see the ULEZ as being more of a money-making issue than any serious attempt to clean up the air. If cleaning up the air was the main priority they would have introduced an outright ban. Why is it acceptable to bring a "polluting" vehicle into the city as long as you pay £12.50 to do so?

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Did the congestion charge actually reduce congestion, or did it just make a lot of money? In my opinion the thing that had the biggest impact was the building of the M25, without which you simply wouldn't be able to move in London now. On the very rare occasions that I go into central London these days congestion seems to me to be not any different to how it was in the 1960s, and indeed probably little different to the 1860s when the biggest problem they faced was becoming knee-deep in horse dung.

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Quote: Originally posted by navver on 15/4/2023

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Hate to tell you chaps but wood burning stoves are worse than vehicles for air pollution. Can't see these paying a ULEZ charge any time soon.

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Quote: Originally posted by tdrees on 14/4/2023

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Quote: Originally posted by arthurdent on 14/4/2023

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If I ever see any signs of the government caring about anything other than themselves, I'll let you know

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I wont hold my breath.

Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 14/4/2023

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Should we try to improve the air quality in our cities? Of course we should!

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Well let's do that then. A comparison with the quality of the air in the 1960s is both futile and not relevant. Its bad now. It was worse before. It needs to get better.

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I see the ULEZ as being more of a money-making issue than any serious attempt to clean up the air. If cleaning up the air was the main priority they would have introduced an outright ban. Why is it acceptable to bring a "polluting" vehicle into the city as long as you pay £12.50 to do so?

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Given the premise that cleaner air is needed, and that involves preventing polluting cars into the city, the choice was 1) ban, 2) charge or 3) do nothing. As you rightly point out - some people have to travel in in older cars, so 2) gives them that option but at a cost that will make you think twice. If you have to do it every day, maybe the cost to change car to one that does not incur the charge is recoverable over the life of the car? 1) would force compliance for all, so you could not make a call based on how frequently you need to make the journey. 3) would allow the air pollution to continue un-checked, and we have agreed that is unacceptable. Having said that - the charge is peanuts and immaterial to some who may be driving the most expensive (yet still not exempt) cars. It's a blunt tool that has issues.

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Did the congestion charge actually reduce congestion, or did it just make a lot of money? In my opinion the thing that had the biggest impact was the building of the M25, without which you simply wouldn't be able to move in London now. On the very rare occasions that I go into central London these days congestion seems to me to be not any different to how it was in the 1960s, and indeed probably little different to the 1860s when the biggest problem they faced was becoming knee-deep in horse dung.

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The congestion charge only impacts the square mile in the city - its a small area. Has it made a difference? We can never know, as there has been no control case. I.e. if the charge did not exist, would the congestion be even higher?

I understood that the congestion charge affects the whole of London, not just the square mile of the city? OH is a QPR supporter (for his sins) and won't go any more, what with that and the price of parking.

Quote: Originally posted by Mrs.

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I understood that the congestion charge affects the whole of London, not just the square mile of the city? OH is a QPR supporter (for his sins) and won't go any more, what with that and the price of parking.

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