Message Forums

Boy, am I confused by all this!!!

I want to get into caravanning - to give it a go - as I think it will suit the family requirements for a "nothing planned" and "last minute arrangements".

My car has a kerbweight of just 1346kg, giving a 85% weight of 1144kg.

Have been looking at a Bailey Discovery 5 berth and the stated MRO is 967kg and a MTPLM of 1222kg.  Using the MTPLM, the percentage would be 90%.

How often do you regulars fill your vans so the reach their MTPLM?

If I fill the car with the gear, will this increase the kerbside weight and so allow me to tow a heavier van ?

Can anyone recommend any other manufacturers for lightweight 4/5 berth vans?

Many thanks indeed for all the help you can provide me with!

It would depend if there are 4 or 5 of you or you are only a couple.  If a couple then you are less likely to use your user payload and less likely to reach the 90%.  Yes if you load some stuff like the awning into the car then you will make it heavier but you also have to be aware of the gross train weight of your car, ie car+all contents+van and contents.

85% is a guideline, not a legality, so I am sure with careful loading you won't be far off of your 85% figure.  Load it up, take it to a weighbridge and then you will have exact figures.  Noseweight is important too, never exceed your car's or towbar's max limit, often 50kg on a family car through to 75kg or 100kg on 4 X 4s etc.  You can get gadgets to measure it or use the family scales!

Ali

Hi Plant, and welcome to ukcampsite.co.uk, the best web resource on the planet for caravanners!

As Ali says this is only a guideline, but inexperienced caravanners exceeding this may find towing uncomfortable.  He is spot on with his advice.

There are many threads on this forum on the subject which can be accessed easily. Using the  button above yields the following

http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/search.asp?search=85%25+rule&searchMode=phrase&searchIn=Topic&forum=20&searchSort=dateDESC&Submit=Start+Search

Have a good read, and I am sure that  it will all be much less confusing.

Never thought of using the bathroom scales!  Cool tip.

There are 4 of us in the family and my wife does like to go well equipped, so it is lkely we will be pushing the limit.

I haven't been able to find any details on the total train weight on the web, so I'll be reading the car manual a little later.

Many thanks indeed.

The total train weight for your car will be stamped on a plate on your car....it is a legal requirement.  The plate is usually under the bonnet at the front......or sometimes on the drivers door pillar.  It may also be in the V5 document.

Try to encourage your family to travel light, you will not use half the stuff anyway.....my daughter always wants to take 6 changes of clothes for 2 days!

This weight thing could prove useful in your attempts to convince your wife that you need that new car!!

Quote: Originally posted by caradad on 18/8/2007

---

Hi Plant, and welcome to ukcampsite.co.uk, the best web resource on the planet for caravanners!

As Ali says this is only a guideline, but inexperienced caravanners exceeding this may find towing uncomfortable.  He is spot on with his advice.

There are many threads on this forum on the subject which can be accessed easily. Using the  button above yields the following

http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/search.asp?search=85%25+rule&searchMode=phrase&searchIn=Topic&forum=20&searchSort=dateDESC&Submit=Start+Search

Have a good read, and I am sure that  it will all be much less confusing.

 

---

I'm a girlie! 

Quote: Originally posted by Plant on 18/8/2007

---

 My car has a kerbweight of just 1346kg, giving a 85% weight of 1144kg.

Have been looking at a Bailey Discovery 5 berth and the stated MRO is 967kg and a MTPLM of 1222kg.  Using the MTPLM, the percentage would be 90%.

How often do you regulars fill your vans so the reach their MTPLM?

If I fill the car with the gear, will this increase the kerbside weight and so allow me to tow a heavier van ?

Can anyone recommend any other manufacturers for lightweight 4/5 berth vans?

---

Now to make things further complicated, I have found 3 different kerb weights for the car.  The manufacturer website, the handbook and the downloadable brochure.  The difference ranges from 1343kg to 1408kg.

In addition to this, the handbook states the EC Kerb weight is the kerbweight (1408kg in the handbook) plus the car model add-on (12.6kg) and the heavy accessories (total 56kg).  This provides a 4th kerbweight figure of 1476.6kg.

The difference between the lowest and the highest is me and my sons weights combined - quite considerable I feel.

Obvioulsy, for the van I have been looking at, the higher kerbweight is the the one I would like to use, as the result is 82.76% - even using the lowest figure, the result is marginally greater than 90%.  The What tow car site gives a 5 star, 90% match so I'm not overly worried.

Does anyone know what kerbweight figure I should rely on?  Handbook (EC kerbweight) or the brochure/manufacturer website?

(yes, I know I really should get over myself!)

Quote: Originally posted by Plant on 20/8/2007

---

Now to make things further complicated, I have found 3 different kerb weights for the car.  The manufacturer website, the handbook and the downloadable brochure.  The difference ranges from 1343kg to 1408kg.

In addition to this, the handbook states the EC Kerb weight is the kerbweight (1408kg in the handbook) plus the car model add-on (12.6kg) and the heavy accessories (total 56kg).  This provides a 4th kerbweight figure of 1476.6kg.

The difference between the lowest and the highest is me and my sons weights combined - quite considerable I feel.

Obvioulsy, for the van I have been looking at, the higher kerbweight is the the one I would like to use, as the result is 82.76% - even using the lowest figure, the result is marginally greater than 90%.  The What tow car site gives a 5 star, 90% match so I'm not overly worried.

Does anyone know what kerbweight figure I should rely on?  Handbook (EC kerbweight) or the brochure/manufacturer website?

(yes, I know I really should get over myself!)

---

Like I said in an earlier post on this subject. Everything is designed to confuse. What you are stating is diabolical. How can you be expected to keep on the right side of the law with info like that. My suggestion to you would be, empty the car to it's original state and take it to a weigh bridge. That way you'll have a definte figure to play with and a weighing slip to prove it.

harryb

Now to confuse even further - the handbook stated kerbweight of 1408kg includes a driver of 68kg, luggage of 7kg and a full tank of fuel.  You THEN have to add the model difference and the heavy accessories to the figure to get the EC kerbweight.

The braked towing weight is 1500kg, so any of the various kerbweights would be used in preference.

Whilst 85% is a guideline, I believe there is a UK rule that states the towing weight must not exceed 100%?  How can this be proved with so many different variations to hand.  At least the figures in the handbook are the higher ones and ones I can produce in any roadside defence .......

I can't see me going as far as to take the car to a local weighbridge - my wife and kids would never let me hear the end of that one!

You have hit the nail on the head with that one......if the police stopped you and wanted to check if your outfit is legal, they would follow you to the nearest weighbridge and what the weighbridge says at the time is the only thing that will be considered. 

All the weights given from various sources would be void and no ammount of arguing would help!

The 100% kerbweight is a change in the law in 1997."if you passed your test after the 1st jan 1997 then you are restricted to towing a caravan whose maximum technical permitted laden mass ( MTPLM ) must not exceed the manufacturers kerbside weight as defined by UK law"  I don't really fancy towing down a hill with a van more that the weight of the car pushing me along, so I will stick to the 85% rule even when I am "experienced" as experienced does not mean invincible!

Get the most reliable set of figures you can find, take the lowest of them all and dont exceed the 85% guideline or your max train weight, check your noseweight, and there is a good chance that you will be legal...or go to the local weighbridge, and get the right figure, and you will know for sure.

You pay your money or take your chance!

Quote: Originally posted by Plant on 20/8/2007

---

Now to make things further complicated, I have found 3 different kerb weights for the car.  The manufacturer website, the handbook and the downloadable brochure.  The difference ranges from 1343kg to 1408kg.

In addition to this, the handbook states the EC Kerb weight is the kerbweight (1408kg in the handbook) plus the car model add-on (12.6kg) and the heavy accessories (total 56kg).  This provides a 4th kerbweight figure of 1476.6kg.

The difference between the lowest and the highest is me and my sons weights combined - quite considerable I feel.

Obvioulsy, for the van I have been looking at, the higher kerbweight is the the one I would like to use, as the result is 82.76% - even using the lowest figure, the result is marginally greater than 90%.  The What tow car site gives a 5 star, 90% match so I'm not overly worried.

Does anyone know what kerbweight figure I should rely on?  Handbook (EC kerbweight) or the brochure/manufacturer website?

(yes, I know I really should get over myself!)

---