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They are now growing petrol on the land that used to grow food.  There was a programme on TV a few months ago, but I can't remember what it was called.

Jim

Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 20/3/2010

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Its the starving countries that suffer.  Not the growers.

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Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 20/3/2010

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The growers are selling there soy beans for fuel. instead of selling for food. Plus the growers are cutting the rain forest`s down more to grow the soy for fuel. Which isnt helping matters. It has been on tv god knows how many times.

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"BUT if theres any rubber in the fuel system it willl rot it in no time at all. It loves injector pumps.rubber fuel lines clog up then the return lines. so its a tank clean out new fuel lines and a injector pump to repair."  

I've been watching this thread and initially declined to post a reply, but now I think it's time to put in my tuppenceworth as I think I have some experience in veg oil and injector pumps, and I think that if anyone is seriously interested in using vegetable oil they should not be put off by statements which, though perhaps well meaning, have no basis in truth.

Vegetable oil will NOT rot rubber seals, that's a 'scaremongers tale' which started years ago. Along with thousands of users I've run over 50,000 miles on combined recycled ex chip shop veg oil/diesel and never had any such issues. Note I said veg oil, not cooking fats. Either way, do you really think something you can eat will rot rubber? Would 'bus companies and hauliers with big, very expensive engines use it if it was as described in the opening paragraph?

Given the correct, suitable pump and injection system most diesels will run on any blend even up to 100% veg oil as I proved with a 5 cylinder 2.9 litre Mercedes engined Daewoo Musso, fitted as standard with a Bosch inline injector pump without any conversion at all. I still have a rubber 'O' ring immersed in a jar of veg oil in the shed which is as good as new after almost 4 years! I'm not sure how fresh the oil will be though!

The additive in some more highly refined fuels will rot rubber; petrol, avgas, dope and methanol especially, but vegetable oil will not. Some 'Bio Fuels' are 5% veg oil and 94.99% standard diesel with 0.5% cetane additives.

Others are 'true' bio diesel made from 'refined' and filtered new or used vegetable oil by using methods such as catalyzed transesterification, acid catalyzed transesterification or simply heating and dewatering before adding lye to remove the fats.

Most methods aim to bring the viscosity down, but to class all 'bio fuels' the same and condemn them is wrong.

Don't take my word for it, look into it more carefully and get considered advice from those who use veg oil and bio diesel, and to start with I'd suggest that you read this;

http://www.dieselveg.com/inj_pump_id.htm 

or this; http://www.dieselveg.com/inj_pump_id.htm

or this; http://www.dieselveg.com/inj_pump_id.htm

Some modern diesels fitted with Bocsh VP44 injector pumps will not run on 'pump' Bio Fuels, and some manufacturers state that only standard diesel with upper levels of cetane ratings should be used, but any 5 cylinder direct injection (not common rail) diesel Mercedes engine with a Bosch inline pump will run on a blend of veg oil and diesel, summer and winter.

Quote: Originally posted by Jake Drummond on 20/3/2010

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"BUT if theres any rubber in the fuel system it willl rot it in no time at all. It loves injector pumps.rubber fuel lines clog up then the return lines. so its a tank clean out new fuel lines and a injector pump to repair."  

I've been watching this thread and initially declined to post a reply, but now I think it's time to put in my tuppenceworth as I think I have some experience in veg oil and injector pumps, and I think that if anyone is seriously interested in using vegetable oil they should not be put off by statements which, though perhaps well meaning, have no basis in truth.

Vegetable oil will NOT rot rubber seals, that's a 'scaremongers tale' which started years ago. Along with thousands of users I've run over 50,000 miles on combined recycled ex chip shop veg oil/diesel and never had any such issues. Note I said veg oil, not cooking fats. Either way, do you really think something you can eat will rot rubber? Would 'bus companies and hauliers with big, very expensive engines use it if it was as described in the opening paragraph?

Given the correct, suitable pump and injection system most diesels will run on any blend even up to 100% veg oil as I proved with a 5 cylinder 2.9 litre Mercedes engined Daewoo Musso, fitted as standard with a Bosch inline injector pump without any conversion at all. I still have a rubber 'O' ring immersed in a jar of veg oil in the shed which is as good as new after almost 4 years! I'm not sure how fresh the oil will be though!

The additive in some more highly refined fuels will rot rubber; petrol, avgas, dope and methanol especially, but vegetable oil will not. Some 'Bio Fuels' are 5% veg oil and 94.99% standard diesel with 0.5% cetane additives.

Others are 'true' bio diesel made from 'refined' and filtered new or used vegetable oil by using methods such as catalyzed transesterification, acid catalyzed transesterification or simply heating and dewatering before adding lye to remove the fats.

Most methods aim to bring the viscosity down, but to class all 'bio fuels' the same and condemn them is wrong.

Don't take my word for it, look into it more carefully and get considered advice from those who use veg oil and bio diesel, and to start with I'd suggest that you read this;

http://www.dieselveg.com/inj_pump_id.htm 

or this; http://www.dieselveg.com/inj_pump_id.htm

or this; http://www.dieselveg.com/inj_pump_id.htm

Some modern diesels fitted with Bocsh VP44 injector pumps will not run on 'pump' Bio Fuels, and some manufacturers state that only standard diesel with upper levels of cetane ratings should be used, but any 5 cylinder direct injection (not common rail) diesel Mercedes engine with a Bosch inline pump will run on a blend of veg oil and diesel, summer and winter.

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jake drummond if you read my post, I did put that link up for folk to read.

 1 big companys dont use over 20% bio buses dont use it full stop. we all use 5% as i have only just found out.(heavy fuel cars)

 2 (unless stated) rubber flexible suitable for Diesel, RME (bio-diesel) and vegetable oil,

I think this will answer 2 posts here. jake and  millermicm.

Millermicm. I wasnt being scarky. I was just saying that it has been on tv god knows how many times. if i have said twice i be lieing.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6211EK.htm

3 Fact: The recent switch to low-sulfur diesel fuel has caused most Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) to switch to components that are also suitable for use with biodiesel. In general, B100 can soften and degrade certain types of elastomers and natural rubber compounds through time. Using high-percent blends can impact fuel system components (i.e., primarily fuel hoses and fuel pump seals) that contain elastomer compounds incompatible with biodiesel, although the effect is less with lower biodiesel blend levels. Experience with B20 has found that no changes to gaskets, hoses, or the maintenance program are necessary.

Biodiesel

4 Biodiesel is a stronger solvent than standard mineral diesel and so all the accumulated gunge in the tank and pipes from years of driving dissolves into the new fuel. When the biodiesel is pumped through to the fuel filter these particles are deposited potentially blocking the filter. Shortly after starting to use biodiesel it is usually necessary to replace the fuel filter at least once. After that the pipes and tank are clean and fuel filters will only need replacing at standard service intervals and you will have a much cleaner car.

Biodiesel's solvent powers also make it hard on any old style rubber piping. All rubber piping and other rubber parts in contact with fuel should be immediately replaced with modern hard-wearing long life nylon pipes to prevent problems. Most modern cars no longer have true rubber parts and so this may not be an issue.

can i use bio fuel in my engine?

5 Any diesel engine can operate on Biodiesel with no modification to the engine. Older vehicles often must have their fuel lines changed from natural rubber to synthetic rubber hoses. Using B20 (a blend of 20% biodiesel and 80% petroleum diesel) requires no precautions before use. If you want to use a blend higher than B20, such as B99.9, you will need to be aware of a few precautions before proceding. B100 is compatible will ALL diesel engines as long a few precautions are taken.

I know my car wont run on bio,  remember when Tesco had a big bill after selling duff fuel? ok on some models, not all.SO again if you dont know that your diesel will run off bio, DONT USE IT.

Theres loads of info on the net that you can just poor the stuff in, make your own from chip fat.etc.a rotory pump yes. Honesly, how many folk on here would try it in there car? I will put a list up from the link "I put up.".

Quote: Originally posted by millermicm on 20/3/2010

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Quote: Originally posted by Bill Terry on 20/3/2010

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The growers are selling there soy beans for fuel. instead of selling for food. Plus the growers are cutting the rain forest`s down more to grow the soy for fuel. Which isnt helping matters. It has been on tv god knows how many times.

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Well I seem to have missed that god knows how many times.

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Well yes you did then Steve, as Bill is quite right there have been television programmes (& radio ones) on this on numerous occasions. 

Areas have de-forested with the obvious drastic results for wildlife, & there are people in "third world" countries starving to death too. How does that saying go - " because we don't see a tree fall in the jungle does mean it did not happen" ? Summat like that anyway.