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Subject Topic: Max tow weight & MTPLM
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11/3/2011 at 9:48pm
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Apologies if this has already been asked elsewhere :)

My car has a maximum towing weight of 1050kg on the log book (kerb weight is around 1500kg but the car seems to have an uncharacteristically low max towing weight, much lower than the 85% recommended kerb weight ratio).

I have been looking for a 2 berth caravan.  I have seen some nice ones with unladen weights of around 850kg.  However these vans seem to have MTPLM of around 1100kg.

My question is if i were to buy one of these caravans and be very careful with loading to ensure that i didnt go over my cars 1050kg max would it be illegal as the caravan has a higher MTPLM (even though i wouldnt actually be loading it to this degree)??

Any advice much appreciated.  The last thing i want to do is commit to buying something that i cant legally tow.



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Mandy


11/3/2011 at 10:11pm
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As far as I am aware, you do need to use the plated MTPLM, not the actual weight you load it to.

-------------
Jennifer


11/3/2011 at 10:12pm
 Location: Keswick
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Don't even go there. Let the car pull around 85% of the cars kerb weight. Your proposal may sound fine till you are going up hill and maybe hit lights and have to do a hill start. Its not all about weight...its about pulling power in different circumstances...its about safety....

Phil



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If you're not on a fell your wasting your feet and for 2014 it's.......Feb Castleton Mar North Yors Moors; Apr Sutton on Sea; May Thirsk; Jun Clapham/Riverside (Lakes); July Wharfedale; August Crakehall; Sept Knaresborough; Oct Wirral Park/Clitheroe    


11/3/2011 at 10:33pm
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If you go for an older 2 berth they can come in around the MTPLM of 1000kg. That's what mine is. Newer vans tend to be heavier, unless you go for the small Elddis just brought out.



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11/3/2011 at 11:03pm
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Quote: Originally posted by cwdc56768 on 11/3/2011

Don't even go there. Let the car pull around 85% of the cars kerb weight...

Phil


Phil is bang on about safety, but I wonder if he's mis-read your post (I read it a few times) as I gather your towing limit is very much lower than the 85% guide as your car has a low towing limit in relation to it's kerbweight.

What you propose is acceptable and I know a few who have done this, however proceed with caution as it's very easy to mis-calculate weights when loading the van and exceeding your target weight to keep within limitation of car. IF you decide to go down this route then protect yourself by getting the van weighed when laden, on a public weighbridge; you'll get a print-out of the weight to which you can later refer.

However, I'd suggest your better option would be to find a van of suitable weights for the car as by reducing your loading to compensate with a van (as per your suggestion) your obviously greatly reducing your available payload (remember you've got your gas and other essentials to consider too).

-------------
Paul

Every day's a school day!


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12/3/2011 at 1:45am
 Location: Midlands
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Not found clear information on this bit.

BUT if you were pulled over they would know the cars max tow is 1050 and the caravan plate shows 1200kg.
Whether it weight 1050 or more is not the point its the plated weight.

Depends if you want the risk. Personally its 50kg over your maximum tow and you should not buy it.

Imagine getting pulled and they say the same thing, The max laden weight is the figure they go by. How will you get to your destination?
How much will it cost you to get the van moved?

How many points on your licence after + fines?

Expensive 50kg.





12/3/2011 at 11:11am
 Location: Blackburn Lancashire
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First, it's illegal.

Second, it's just not up to the job.

Don't do it.

Jim



12/3/2011 at 4:48pm
 Location: Ayrshire Scotland
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My understanding is that it's the vehicle's Gross Train Weight that is the legal weight which the police enforce, and if you've got a low Max Towing Weight then you'd be snookered if stopped by the police.

Also, there might be insurance issues if you were involved in an accident while having an over-weight outfit.

Finally, manufacturers usually set a low max towing weight for a reason.

-------------
David.


I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure!


12/6/2014 at 1:28pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Supatramp on 12/3/2011


Finally, manufacturers usually set a low max towing weight for a reason.



Or maybe not.

Honda set the trailer limit for the 2nd Gen CRV automatics at only 1200kgs until they started losing sales - then it shot up to 1500kgs without any mods to the underlying vehicle. Overcautious engineers trumped by the need to sell vehicles


12/6/2014 at 4:54pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 12/3/2011
Not found clear information on this bit.

BUT if you were pulled over they would know the cars max tow is 1050 and the caravan plate shows 1200kg.
Whether it weight 1050 or more is not the point its the plated weight.

Depends if you want the risk. Personally its 50kg over your maximum tow and you should not buy it.

Imagine getting pulled and they say the same thing, The max laden weight is the figure they go by. How will you get to your destination?
How much will it cost you to get the van moved?

How many points on your licence after + fines?

Expensive 50kg.






Not correct. If the op has a post 1997 licence then the consideration would be is the sum of the plated maximum gross weight of the car and the mtplm of the caravan less than 3500kg. If that condition is met then is the sum the actual weights of car and caravan less than the plated maximum train weight and are the actual weights of the individual vehicles less than the individual plated maxima. If all these are acceptable then no offence is committed.
As to the manufacturers limit it would be unwise of anyone to exceed it
Even if everything else is correct, however, the judgement made is on the actual weight not on the plated weight.


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


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12/6/2014 at 10:18pm
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It might help if the OP told what the actual car is ,as I have seen quite a few cock ups with the interpretation of weights etc on here of late


12/6/2014 at 11:46pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Greendemon315 on 12/3/2011

First, it's illegal.

Second, it's just not up to the job.

Don't do it.

Jim




It would be perfectly legal used in the way the OP suggests, the fact that the manual car has a much higher manufacturers limit than the auto suggests that the problem is with the gearbox not with the basic car not being up to it. If the OP wants to use his car in that way then that would be his decision, the law would be on his side.



-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


12/6/2014 at 11:51pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Supatramp on 12/3/2011
My understanding is that it's the vehicle's Gross Train Weight that is the legal weight which the police enforce, and if you've got a low Max Towing Weight then you'd be snookered if stopped by the police.

Also, there might be insurance issues if you were involved in an accident while having an over-weight outfit.

Finally, manufacturers usually set a low max towing weight for a reason.


You are correct in saying that it is the max gross train weight that is the measure of being overweight. The OP is suggesting keeping within the manufacturers towing weight. The outfit loaded as suggested would not be overweight so no insurance issues. Insurance issues are a red herring as the third party risks are covered come what may the only quibble any insurance company can have is with covering damage to the vehicle itself. The caravan is only covered for third party risks on the car insurance anyway.



-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


13/6/2014 at 7:46am
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I do not know about the laws in other countries but I know the ones for the UK ....

Take each one at a time and see if it has been complied with ....

None of these must be exceeded
The GVW of the vehicle = RTA
The plated MAM/MTPLM of the trailer = RTA
The GTW or actual weight of both when weighed together = RTA
The manufacturers towing capacity or actual weight of the trailer - if listed = reg 100 of C&U

There are no others unless someone would like to supply them with credible sources

There are no laws or rules which state that any GVW/MAM/MTPLM weights must fit in with actual weight limits - that is fact

Plenty of myths out there on the internet for some to latch onto but those are the rules to follow




-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


13/6/2014 at 8:54am
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You could try this as a guide


14/7/2014 at 1:58am
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Quote: Originally posted by jennifernn on 11/3/2011
As far as I am aware, you do need to use the plated MTPLM, not the actual weight you load it to.



The MPTLM is a not to exceed weight. As long as the caravan is not loaded past 1050kg, it would be 100% legal as long as the gross train weight was not exceeded.



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