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Topic: Straightliner v Alko AKS 3400 Stabiliser

Tim and Cary

18/11/2012 at 9:22pm
Location: Criccieth Gwynedd
Outfit: Buccaneer Commodore

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Hi

When I bought my Bailey Senator Arizona (06) in 2007 it came with the standard fitted AKS3400 stabiliser hitch. As I had used a "Straightliner" stabiliser with my 2 previous c'vans, for a number of years,I asked the dealer to replace the AKS hitch with a standard hitch and continued to use the "Straightliner".

The "Straightliner" for those of not familiar with it is a blade type stabiliser but with a BIG difference in that it has a gas cylinder which actually pushes the c'van back into line if it moves out of line. One could actually feel it activating when passed by, eg, a passing HGV, etc. The "Straightliner" received excellent reviews after extensive testing showed it to be extremely effective at stabilising caravans even under extreme attempts to artificially create "snakes".

I, also, had Alko ATC retrofitted to the c'van when it became available and continued to use the "Straightliner" with this.

Last year, mainly because of problems with an arthritic knee which made fitting the the Straightliner difficult I had my service engineer fit an Alko towball fitted to the car and the original AKS 3400 stabiliser hitch, which the selling dealer had given me, refitted to the c'van.

However, after a just over a year's use I am disatisfied and disappointed with the performance of the Alko stabiliser hitch. Although I have been c'vanning for 15 years and I am very careful about how I load the c'van and regularly check the noseweight I feel that the the "Straightliner's" performance was superior.

Today I have driven c70 miles home from Grange-over-Sands on the M6 and despite careful loading and checking the noseweight before leaving I still found the c'van to be adversely affected by passing HGVs, sidewinds, etc.

I am now seriously thinking of changing back to the standard hitch and the "Straightliner" stabiliser.

i wonder if effectiveness has been sacrificed for the sake of convenience. I would welcome any comments.

Tim

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Tim and Cary

tango55

18/11/2012 at 9:57pm
Location: Lichfield
Outfit: Coachman Amara 450

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It's actually an Alko '3004' stabiliser and not a '3400' but did you at any time exceed 60 mph. because that can have a dramatic effect on stability to say the least and why use a stabiliser when the advanced ATC was installed? I have seen it times out of number on the M6 motorway whereby vehicles towing caravans are doing more 70 mph. so if speed is the essence then of course the ATC and extra stabiliser were needed to control the caravan in tow.

If you need advice on stabilisers the link below is useful.

http://www.a-tconsulting.co.uk/caravan_tech/stabilisers.html

Post last edited on 18/11/2012 22:09:22

Tim and Cary

18/11/2012 at 10:40pm
Location: Criccieth Gwynedd
Outfit: Buccaneer Commodore

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Quote: Originally posted by tango55 on 18/11/2012

It's actually an Alko '3004' stabiliser and not a '3400' but did you at any time exceed 60 mph. because that can have a dramatic effect on stability to say the least and why use a stabiliser when the advanced ATC was installed? I have seen it times out of number on the M6 motorway whereby vehicles towing caravans are doing more 70 mph. so if speed is the essence then of course the ATC and extra stabiliser were needed to control the caravan in tow.
If you need advice on stabilisers the link below is useful.
http://www.a-tconsulting.co.uk/caravan_tech/stabilisers.html

Post last edited on 18/11/2012 22:09:22

Thanks for your comments but I NEVER tow at more than 60 mph. I do not understand your comment regarding why have a stabiliser when the c'van has ATC fitted as most modern caravans have both ATC and an Alko hitch stabiliser!

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Tim and Cary

tango55

18/11/2012 at 11:41pm
Location: Lichfield
Outfit: Coachman Amara 450

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ATC stands for 'Automatic Trailer Control' which is a device that operates each caravan brake shoe independently if the caravan starts to snake at all. The one brake operates to bring the trailer straight and the same on the opposite side if it snakes the other way so it's acting exactly the same as a stabiliser so there's no need for two stabilisers to operate simultaneously as they can actually oppose each other which is defeating the object of the advanced ATC control. Having two stabilisers operating at the same time is not a good idea as the two would be fighting each other causing the inefectiveness of the caravan being stable when being overtaken by HGV's and sidewinds.

Tim and Cary

18/11/2012 at 11:56pm
Location: Criccieth Gwynedd
Outfit: Buccaneer Commodore

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Quote: Originally posted by tango55 on 18/11/2012
ATC stands for 'Automatic Trailer Control' which is a device that operates each caravan brake shoe independently if the caravan starts to snake at all. The one brake operates to bring the trailer straight and the same on the opposite side if it snakes the other way so it's acting exactly the same as a stabiliser so there's no need for two stabilisers to operate simultaneously as they can actually oppose each other which is defeating the object of the advanced ATC control. Having two stabilisers operating at the same time is not a good idea as the two would be fighting each other causing the inefectiveness of the caravan being stable when being overtaken by HGV's and sidewinds.

As I said previously virtually ALL modern caravans come fitted with both ATC and the Alko 3004 hitch.

Incidentally ATC does NOT operate on each brake shoe independently it operates on both brakes equally retarding the motion of the caravan so that the car pulls the caravan back in line. See the Alko ATC website for confirmation of this.

Tim

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Tim and Cary

ba.roberts

19/11/2012 at 12:01am
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tango55 I am slightly concerned by your statement Having two stabilisers operating at the same time is not a good idea. In fact Alko recommend just the opposite if you read this: http://www.al-ko.co.uk/pages/optimum-safety.html or were you just talking about using the Straightliner?

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Brian

tango55

19/11/2012 at 12:40am
Location: Lichfield
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When the ATC was first introduced they had some teething problems and some caravans had to be returned to the dealers for rectification as the ATC was defective resulting in no stabiliser operating at all. This raised concerns regarding road safety so the manufacturers decided to put both devices on merely as a secondary safety measure although there were concerns about the effects of two active stabilisers operating together. Because the hitch stabiliser is a mechanical device it basically is a fail safe component whereas the ATC is a computer device that can malfunction without the knowledge of the driver so that's why they now have two devices fitted instead of just the ATC control. The ATC is not cracked up to what it supposed to be but because so much money has been invested in this project nobody in the manufacturing sector will actually take accountability to say the device is no good because computerised technology is always the way forward so no company will accept defeat on a project like this. They now fit the two devices due to premature failure of the ATC but the truth about the buffering effects have to be ignored and accepted as the norm. It's very much like having a diesel train pulling railway carriages with another diesel train at the rear end. You can either have one pulling or one pushing but you can't have both driving at the same time and having two active stabilisers are no different in theory and in practice.

Opensauce

19/11/2012 at 8:10am
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Are you running with enough noseweight? I think you can go to 100kg with the car in your profile, as much noseweight as possible within car/caravan limits will improve stability. Provided caravan is correctly loaded, a bit of movement caused by crosswinds & passing trucks won't turn into a snake that will actually cause a crash.

I would say you are correct though that the Al-ko stab is a compromise for ease of use though. Its fairly obvious that a stab that works by just gripping the ball is not going to be as effective as the other stab you describe.

JTQU

19/11/2012 at 9:09am
Location: Hampshire
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I cant believe the misinformation I have just read on here about Al-Ko's ATC.

Tim and Cary

19/11/2012 at 10:28am
Location: Criccieth Gwynedd
Outfit: Buccaneer Commodore

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Quote: Originally posted by JTQU on 19/11/2012
I cant believe the misinformation I have just read on here about Al-Ko's ATC.

Which misinformation were you referring to JTQ

I think I know!!

I was hoping for a discussion on the relative merits of the 2 types of stabiliser. I know how all of these devices are supposed to work, how they are adjusted, etc. The pads on my Alko stabiliser are showing as "like new", the towball is cleaned with brake cleaner before EVERY trip, the c'van is VERY carefully loaded and I regularly check the noseweight both with my Milenco N/W gauge and the one built into my Alko jockey wheel. Oh and just for good measure I check car and c'van tyre pressures and torque the wheelnuts on both before every trip too!!!

As Tentz says I am beginning to wonder if we are not all being conned by the virtually universal fitting of stabiliser hitches.

I am probably just over cautious as I've only twice had a minor snake. The first was in France c10 years ago - lesson WELL AND TRULY LEARNED and the other c6 years ago when, following a breakdown in Italy, Red Pennant could only provide a hired tow car which was both underpowered and low on its noseweight limit.

I, would, however, say that I still liked the re-assuring feel of the gas strut on the "Straightliner" pushing the c'van back into line when it detected any instability.

Tim

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Tim and Cary

tango55

19/11/2012 at 10:58am
Location: Lichfield
Outfit: Coachman Amara 450

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Tim and Cary: Reading all your past comments it appears you are doing everything right but Tentz has a valid point regarding not having enough noseweight because too lighter noseweight can be just as bad as having too much. Whatever your towball weight limit is on your towcar try achieving that target and see how the caravan responds next time. Regarding the information on the ATC problems, when you go on rallies with various clubs like we do, you get to know a lot more information during discussions from other peoples problems and experiences especially when something new comes on the market. Although the ATC product will have gone through a research and development process prior to marketing it probably hasn't actually really been thoroughly tried and tested but the customer always provides the best feedback whether it be good or bad and one of the best places to hear that feedback is on forums such as this as it goes out to a much wider audience, bigger than that on the rally field.

Tim and Cary

19/11/2012 at 11:17am
Location: Criccieth Gwynedd
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Hi T55

I aim for 100Kg noseweight on the c'van which is the maximum for an Alko hitch, checked on the industry standard Milenco N/W gauge. The towball limit on my car is 150Kg!!

I know all about problems with ATC. When it was first had fitted I had the c'van brakes come on when I was towing. By the time I discovered this the brakes pads were worn to the metal and the handbrake went so far back when applied that it chipped a lump of plastic out of the hitch fairing.

I contacted Alko querying whether this had been caused by the ATC and the sales manager and an engineer actually travelled up from their HQ and checked out the ATC. There had been a few similar posts on the Caravan forums and I think ATC were feeling a little worried. After a mechanical and computer check they said the ATC was working fine. I have no reason to doubt them and suspect the problem may have been caused by the breakaway cable being fouled on the bikes on our Witter towball carrier and pulled the brakes on. Certainly I've had no problems since.

As I said previously I still wonder if the Alko, and other makes, hitch stabilisers are as good as my old Straightliner. I think that effectiveness may have been "sacrificed", as often happens, on the "altar" of convenience!!

Tim

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Tim and Cary

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