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Subject Topic: BHP help please Post Reply Post New Topic
PersonWhite Rose
20/6/2013 at 10:55am
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Our current car and caravan combination gives us a BHP ratio of 46 per ton.  Looking at our potential new caravan/car combination, the CC tow matching service shows one of its triangular exclamation marks as the new BHP ratio drops to 39.  Would that be a problem in reality?  Would we notice the drop off in performance?


PersonJack+Jon
20/6/2013 at 12:06pm
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Its a rather pointless figure. Its torque not bhp that equals pulling power. A modern diesel will have better torque figure than a petrol engine with more bhp for example. If you are paying your own repair bills you don't want to be using anywhere near full engine performance when towing anyway or you will be paying out for new clutch sooner rather than later. Provided car is a match for the caravan then performance will be adequate.

-------------
Regards, Jack+Jon.


Persontimtheenchanter
20/6/2013 at 12:24pm
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Tis about the torque, I think my fender only gets about 49/T solo, that would drop to 20 at the 3.5T it can legally pull on a standard towbar.

might not have the power, but the torque figure at the wheels could pull a small car in two...


PersonGrampian91
20/6/2013 at 1:17pm
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My 130bhp diesel Mondeo tows much better than my old 142bhp petrol Mondeo.

As above, Turbo and lots of torque, Means less gear changes.


PersonWhite Rose
20/6/2013 at 2:14pm
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Thanks all - but how do I know whether I have a bucketload of torque or not?



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Persontango55
20/6/2013 at 2:36pm
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The BHP is the amount of power the engine delivers from the engine crank whereas the torque is the amount of power delivered through the drive shafts to the driving wheels which could be either front wheel drive, rear wheel drive or 4x4 where all four wheels receive torque delivery. So basically it's the torque you have to consider more when when towing but the higher BHP can sometimes help such as if you use the air conditioning unit whilst towing. The cam belt, alternator and power steering all function by the use of a drive belt which are all turned by the crank so the more BHP you have the less energy is required so if you have the air conditioning turned on (which also is operated by a belt when in use) will put extra drag on the crank output so the higher BHP is beneficial under these circumstances. If you want to know how much torque your vehicle has then if you provided all the necessary details regarding your towing vehicle I may be able to find out some information. 


Personjohnjory
20/6/2013 at 4:10pm
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"...Our current car and caravan combination gives us a BHP ratio of 46 per ton....as the new BHP ratio drops to 39. Would that be a problem in reality?"

40BHP / Tonne is a general rule of thumb used by engineers as to the minimum power you need just to get along. That is what the CC Matching Service is probably referring to when the ratio drops below 40.


Personjohnjory
20/6/2013 at 4:48pm
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PS

PS
Torque is not independent of available BHP. When a previous post said the their lower power diesel towed better that their higher power petrol engine this is probably due to how the engine is managed. The diesel will produce it's torque at a lower rev setting, we are mostly reluctant to 'push' our engines, but they do need to be 'pushed to produce their power. The petrol will need to be driven at a higher rpm to produce the same torque.

Anyway, at this stage, it needs a full PowerPoint presentation to demonstrate!


Personjohnjory
20/6/2013 at 4:50pm
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PPS

In short, petrol or diesel, it is inadvisable to drop below 40 BHP / Tonne and the more power, the better.


PersonGrampian91
20/6/2013 at 6:42pm
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I had my diesel remapped, 130bhp to just over 150bhp.

The result even less gearchanges but improved MPG also.

39mpg last year.


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PersonPetemate
20/6/2013 at 6:45pm
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Sorry mods - going a bit O/T, but I feel it is relevant...



Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car.

Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.

Torque is how far you take the wall with you.


PersonJohn in Leeds
20/6/2013 at 8:20pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Petemate on 20/6/2013
Sorry mods - going a bit O/T, but I feel it is relevant...



Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car.

Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.

Torque is how far you take the wall with you.



Fun analogies



-------------

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell


Persondiesel steve
20/6/2013 at 8:41pm
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Quote: Originally posted by johnjory on 20/6/2013
PPS

In short, petrol or diesel, it is inadvisable to drop below 40 BHP / Tonne and the more power, the better.


our trucks run at 10 bhp/ tonne towing 44tons


PersonBrownie73
20/6/2013 at 8:51pm
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Quote: Originally posted by White Rose on 20/6/2013

Thanks all - but how do I know whether I have a bucketload of torque or not?




it will be listed in the spec of the car or post make model engine here and someone will help like tango said
i dont think the op is asking what torque is but how to find what there car has


Persontimtheenchanter
21/6/2013 at 8:18am
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The only problem with looking up car specs is most of the time it is meaningless.

The Power (BHP) and torque stated is usually that of the ENGINE, which is (in the case of torque) completely different to the Torque at the wheels

Some of the BHP will be lost in the transmission, the torque could be a hell of a lot higher due to gearing, for example, any car has more torque at the wheels in 1st than 5th.


Personmattlad
21/6/2013 at 11:41am
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Quote: Originally posted by Petemate on 20/6/2013


Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car.

Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.

Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall.

Torque is how far you take the wall with you.



Or the other saying:-

BHP sells cars, torque wins races.



-------------
Love a lot. Trust a few. But ALWAYS paddle your own canoe!!
Minds are like parachutes:- They only function when they are open!!!
Those who talk don't know.
Those who know don't talk.



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