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Subject Topic: Unladen weight
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02/7/2013 at 10:52pm
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 Outfit: Swift Speedbird 2003
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Hi
Sorry, so many questions today!
I've just paid towsafe to check a vehicle match and it's coming up illegal on my licence as I don't have b+e.
The kerb weight is 1490, the gross weight is 1930.
The caravan is 1332 mtplm.

Towsafe say that the unladen car weight is less than the caravan, but I thought that as long as the two gross weights (i.e. 1930 + 1332) were under 3500 I was okay. Providing I also didn't exceed the kerb weight with the van.

I'm quite shocked - help me please............
Thanks

-------------
Gail
March - Bamburgh
Easter - Low Park Wood CC Kendal
May - Yellowcraigs CC North Berwick
June - Wharfedale CC Grassington


02/7/2013 at 11:47pm
 Location: Rochdale
 Outfit: Hymer Nova 470 Mondeo titanium 140tdc
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1332 plus 1980 is 3312 so your total mass is less than the 3500 kg required, and the mtplm of the caravan appears to be less than the unladen mass of the car so that is also fine. Just check the V5 of the car and check the mass in running order and as long as that is more than 1332kg then you can consider yourself legal.


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


03/7/2013 at 9:37am
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Thanks for your help Bill.

I've got a copy of the V5 which doesn't list mass in running order, it lists mass in service of 1565 - is this the same?

Also do you know if the kerbweight would be on the V5 - I can't see a figure of 1490 anywhere.

Thanks again - appreciate your help.



-------------
Gail
March - Bamburgh
Easter - Low Park Wood CC Kendal
May - Yellowcraigs CC North Berwick
June - Wharfedale CC Grassington


03/7/2013 at 12:03pm
 Location: Harrogate Yorkshire.
 Outfit: Skoda Octavia 4x4 & Compass Omega 482
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Mass in service is the weight to go by. That figure includes the unladen weight of the car plus fluids to operate and 75kg EU directive 95/48/EC driver / fuel. It excludes any components added by the dealer i.e. towbar, optional spare wheel, etc.

Some car handbooks may not include the 75kg. My car handbook makes it very clear that the kerbweight does include the 75kg and is the same weight as the mass in service in the V5C.

So, 1565kg x 0.85 = 1330kg to be within the 85% guideline ratio, which you are. So no worries you are well within the guidelines and law.



-------------
Skoda Octavia Estate 2.0TDi 4x4 (2012) towing a Compass Omega 482 (2014)


03/7/2013 at 12:31pm
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Thank you so much for taking the time to help - I've very grateful and very very relieved!

Cheers.

-------------
Gail
March - Bamburgh
Easter - Low Park Wood CC Kendal
May - Yellowcraigs CC North Berwick
June - Wharfedale CC Grassington


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03/7/2013 at 2:08pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Mondeo Avondale Gram
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What car is it? Mass in service of 1565 and a gross weight of 1930 seems rather low.

Barely enough to carry 4 adult passengers never mind luggage.



03/7/2013 at 2:21pm
 Location: Rochdale
 Outfit: Hymer Nova 470 Mondeo titanium 140tdc
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Just to be on the safe side check the weights on the weight plate of the car, that will give you the definitive value for max laden weight. With a caravan weighing 1332kg the cars maximum can be anything up to 2168kg for you to remain legal


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


03/7/2013 at 3:56pm
 Location: None Entered
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 03/7/2013
What car is it? Mass in service of 1565 and a gross weight of 1930 seems rather low.

Barely enough to carry 4 adult passengers never mind luggage.




It's a Toyota Rav 2.0 D4D 2004.



-------------
Gail
March - Bamburgh
Easter - Low Park Wood CC Kendal
May - Yellowcraigs CC North Berwick
June - Wharfedale CC Grassington


03/7/2013 at 8:27pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Mondeo Avondale Gram
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I dont have the figures for that. What is on the chassis plate?



03/7/2013 at 11:19pm
 Location: None Entered
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Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 03/7/2013
I dont have the figures for that. What is on the chassis plate?




Its a rav 4 vt3 5dr d4d. Does that make sense or do you need the chassis number?
Thanks


-------------
Gail
March - Bamburgh
Easter - Low Park Wood CC Kendal
May - Yellowcraigs CC North Berwick
June - Wharfedale CC Grassington


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03/7/2013 at 11:29pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Mondeo Avondale Gram
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Not the chassis number. Just the weights on the plate.

You should have a front and rear axle load figure, Plus a gross weight and then another weight which is the gross train weight.

I think the towsafe check came back as a no, Because the gross caravan weight is over the cars max tow limit.

Is there an option to contact them and query it?



04/7/2013 at 8:07am
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Hi

These are all the weights I have one the V5:

Mass pesmissible mass : 1930
Mass in service: 1565
Technical permissible maximum towable mass of the trailer
Braked 1500
Unbraked: 640

Thank so you much for looking at this for me.

Gail.





-------------
Gail
March - Bamburgh
Easter - Low Park Wood CC Kendal
May - Yellowcraigs CC North Berwick
June - Wharfedale CC Grassington


04/7/2013 at 8:09am
 Location: Harrogate Yorkshire.
 Outfit: Skoda Octavia 4x4 & Compass Omega 482
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Any good? Hope it helps? GTW does need checking, as Grampian91 says.
It is from the Caravan Club matching service, I have put my caravan details in for the match.
K/weight does not include the EU 75kg element.
Tow limit 1,500kg
XT3 not VT3??
The Club advises that a Toyota RAV4 2.0D-4D XT3 4x4 (2004) can, with warnings, tow a Sprite Alpine 4 (2006)

Kerbweight ratio: 85%
The caravan's laden weight is within 85% of the car's kerb weight, and therefore meets Club guidelines.
Towing limit ratio: 82%
The caravan's laden weight is within the car's stated towing limit, and therefore meets legal limitations.
Gross train weight ratio: 96%
We do not have a gross train weight figure for this car. There is a small risk of the car’s GTW being exceeded if both car and caravan are heavily laden, as some car makers define GTW as less than the sum of the car and the caravan’s fully laden weights. However, we judge this outfit unlikely to suffer this problem. To be absolutely sure of not exceeding this legal limit, though, check the car’s GTW suitability by referring to the retailer or maker (or the weight plate on the car, if available).
Nose weight ratio: 115%
The car's nose weight should be fine to safely tow this caravan. If this figure is high, however, (typically over 100%) care will be needed to load the caravan so that the car’s nose weight limit is not exceeded, but this should be practically achievable. Aim for 5-7% of the caravan’s actual laden weight without overloading the car.
BHP per ton : 39
The car's engine power is quite low to tow this caravan. It may be sluggish and uncomfortable on hills or at junctions.

Toyota RAV4 2.0D-4D XT3 4x4 (2004)

Make     Toyota
Range     2.0D-4D XT3 4x4
Model     RAV4
Year     2004
Fuel type Diesel
Transmission type Manual
Body type     Sports utility vehicle
Kerb weight     1440.00kg (75kg to add)
Towing limit     1500.00kg
Gross vehicle weight 1930.00kg
Gross train weight Unknown
Nose weight 75.00kg
BHP 114
RPM for maximum BHP     4000.00
Maximum torque     250.00
RPM for maximum torque     1800.00
More info
Sprite Alpine 4 (2006)

Make     Sprite
Range     Alpine
Model     4
Year     2006
Type     Caravan
Berths     4
Number of axles     1
MTPLM     1230kg
MIRO     1009kg
User payload     221kg
Hitch limit     Unknown
Shipping length     6.37m
Overall width     2.23m
Overall height     2.70m

-------------
Skoda Octavia Estate 2.0TDi 4x4 (2012) towing a Compass Omega 482 (2014)


04/7/2013 at 9:16am
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: Swift Speedbird 2003
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That is very helpful, thank you Octavia.

Right will try and get a gross train weight.

How much of an issue is it that it says the car will be sluggish at 39 BHP per tonne?

Sorry so many questions, but I'm keen not to buy a car which I'm not 100% sure of.

thanks again everyone.
Gx

-------------
Gail
March - Bamburgh
Easter - Low Park Wood CC Kendal
May - Yellowcraigs CC North Berwick
June - Wharfedale CC Grassington


04/7/2013 at 9:54am
 Location: Harrogate Yorkshire.
 Outfit: Skoda Octavia 4x4 & Compass Omega 482
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The CC recommend 40Bhp per ton minimum within the matcing service, which is based on the GTW, what the engine is pulling, however engine torque is the main factor to consider. My caravan is 100kg lighter than yours (in the match), take that into account, so you may have to use your gears more on hills.

My unit comes out at 47Bhp/ton, engine 138Bhp, torque 320nm (236ft) / 1,750-2,500rpm. and at 60mph in 6th gear it is no problem and can handle most motorway hills, however I do tend to drop into 5th, why put strain on the DMF.

My Octavia: Plated GVW 2,095kg GTW 3695kg. Mass in service V5 1,495kg. Tow limit 1,600kg.

It also has the advantage of Haldex 4x4, 90% power to front wheels and 10% to rear and when needed up to 100% to rear, and loads of space for luggage/gear with a 600kg payload.

Towing 33-35mpg.

Dare I say it, something to consider!17



-------------
Skoda Octavia Estate 2.0TDi 4x4 (2012) towing a Compass Omega 482 (2014)


04/7/2013 at 10:00am
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: Swift Speedbird 2003
View Gailk's Profile View Profile   Reply to Gailk Reply   Quote Gailk Quote  
Joined: 15/8/2002

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Quote: Originally posted by Octavia4x4 on 04/7/2013

The CC recommend 40Bhp per ton minimum within the matcing service, which is based on the GTW, what the engine is pulling, however engine torque is the main factor to consider. My caravan is 100kg lighter than yours (in the match), take that into account, so you may have to use your gears more on hills.

My unit comes out at 47Bhp/ton, engine 138Bhp, torque 320nm (236ft) / 1,750-2,500rpm. and at 60mph in 6th gear it is no problem and can handle most motorway hills, however I do tend to drop into 5th, why put strain on the DMF.

My Octavia: Plated GVW 2,095kg GTW 3695kg. Mass in service V5 1,495kg. Tow limit 1,600kg.

It also has the advantage of Haldex 4x4, 90% power to front wheels and 10% to rear and when needed up to 100% to rear, and loads of space for luggage/gear with a 600kg payload.

Towing 33-35mpg.

Dare I say it, something to consider!<img align="absmiddle" src="forum_images/smiley2.gif" width="17" alt="17">





thank you so much for your help - another car to add to the list to try though.....we have a volvo v70 at the minute which is getting old and needs replacing, and need a 4wd for the snow!

Thanks again.


-------------
Gail
March - Bamburgh
Easter - Low Park Wood CC Kendal
May - Yellowcraigs CC North Berwick
June - Wharfedale CC Grassington



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