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Topic: Maximum towing limit

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colorde

10/8/2013 at 6:57pm
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Hello,
I would appreciate if some one could help me.
I have a citroen Picasso with a maximum towing weight of 1300kg. and was told that I had to buy a caravan with a MTPLM of below this. However, after visiting a caravan dealer earlier today I was told by the manager that it is the mass in running order that the law applies to and as long as I don't load the van beyond my vehicles limit I am not breaking the law.
I would appreciate if someone could give me a definitive answer. As I am really limited to what van I can get with a 1300Kg load.
Thank You

Al+Mel

10/8/2013 at 7:26pm
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This might be interesting;

What TowCar

colorde

10/8/2013 at 7:31pm
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Thanks for that, but it still does not define whether I should use the MTPLM or mass in running order.
Cheers
Colin

White Rose

10/8/2013 at 8:47pm
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Does the information here http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/technicalhelp/towing/matching-car-and-caravan/ help you decide? Whatever you do, don't take yourself too close to your towing margins, it'll make for a much more stressful towing experience.

Edited to fix link

Post last edited on 10/08/2013 23:48:13

tango55

10/8/2013 at 8:57pm
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You are right and the dealer is wrong. The MIRO is the weight of the caravan when it leaves the manufacturer but the MTPLM is the maximum weight including your personal payload plus everything else. If you buy a caravan with a motor mover then the weight of this is excluded from the MTPLM allowance so this has to be taken into consideration as well. The salesman is obviously more interested in money than he is in your safety.

colorde

10/8/2013 at 10:40pm
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Thank you for your help
Regards
Colin

colorde

11/8/2013 at 8:33am
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Quote: Originally posted by White Rose on 10/8/2013

Does the information here http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/helpandadvice/technicalhelp/towing/matching-car-and-caravan/ help you decide? Whatever you do, don't take yourself too close to your towing margins, it'll make for a much more stressful towing experience.
Edited to fix link

Post last edited on 10/08/2013 23:48:13

Thanks for that link White Rose it is very informative and cleared a lot up I am assuming It is legal to buy a caravan with a MTPLM which is higher than my max of 1300kg and not load it with so much gear and this would keep me below the legal towing limit.
Regards
Colin

Al+Mel

11/8/2013 at 9:39am
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This is the important bit

"The Camping and Caravanning Club, like many others in the industry, recommends you only tow a caravan that weighs 85 per cent or less of your car’s kerbweight. Those who are experienced at towing may go up to 100 per cent of the car’s kerbweight, but no-one should tow a caravan that is heavier than the towing limit of the vehicle it’s behind. Legally, if you add together the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of your car and the MTPLM of your caravan, the total weight must not exceed the GTW of the car."

So you need to know the GTW of your car, take off its MAM and whatever is left is the maximum MTPLM figure for a caravan you can tow.

As White Rose says "Whatever you do, don't take yourself too close to your towing margins, it'll make for a much more stressful towing experience." If you load up the car instead of the 'van will the suspension cope? can you achieve the correct noseweight? and is there enough power to make a steep hill start?

Post last edited on 11/08/2013 09:55:36

iank01

11/8/2013 at 10:20am
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Quote: Originally posted by colorde on 10/8/2013Hello,
I would appreciate if some one could help me.
I have a citroen Picasso with a maximum towing weight of 1300kg. and was told that I had to buy a caravan with a MTPLM of below this. However, after visiting a caravan dealer earlier today I was told by the manager that it is the mass in running order that the law applies to and as long as I don't load the van beyond my vehicles limit I am not breaking the law.
I would appreciate if someone could give me a definitive answer. As I am really limited to what van I can get with a 1300Kg load.
Thank You

Do not use that dealer to make a purchase of a caravan as they are twisting the law to suit their own agenda. Did he mention train weight because if you exceed this you will have a serious problem if stopped by VOSA.
But in answer your question the kerbweight of the car is about 1500kg so it would be okay to tow up to 1300kg however the range of caravan in that category is limited. The other option is to trade in the car.

tango55

11/8/2013 at 1:54pm
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If you are looking for a two berth then you won't be so limited on the towing weight as you would with a four berth. My caravan's MTPLM is 1300 kgs. which is a 1999 model but the later Amara 450's slightly increased to about 1325 kgs. but at least it gives you a guide.

colorde

11/8/2013 at 3:20pm
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Thank you for all your help it is much appreciated.
Regards
Colin

DrivenMad

13/8/2013 at 9:22pm
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Just to clarify.
You cannot be prosecuted for possible overloads,so it is possible that plated weights are above Gross Train Weights (GTW) and still legal.
What you must do is weight check individual axles and vehicle and trailer combination to determine if you are overloading.

iank01

14/8/2013 at 10:21am
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Quote: Originally posted by DrivenMad on 13/8/2013
Just to clarify.
You cannot be prosecuted for possible overloads,so it is possible that plated weights are above Gross Train Weights (GTW) and still legal.
What you must do is weight check individual axles and vehicle and trailer combination to determine if you are overloading.

I think the above is very confusing because if you exceed the gross train weight or the load rating on the tyres you will be fined.

The 2 Tops

14/8/2013 at 10:31am
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My tow car has a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), and the weight that it can pull (trailer weight) is 1500 kg.
No Gross Train Weight is given.

However, we have been looking at another vehicle, the brochure of which gives the GVW AND a Gross Train Weight, and a trailer weight also of 1500 kg.
With this vehicle, if I were to load it to its GVW and my caravan to its 1500 kg MTPLM, the Gross Train Weight would be exceeded.
I would not recommend taking the risk of exceeding the Gross Train Weight.
Bertie.

-------------
The 2 Tops

iank01

14/8/2013 at 10:42am
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Quote: Originally posted by The 2 Tops on 14/8/2013
My tow car has a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW), and the weight that it can pull (trailer weight) is 1500 kg.
No Gross Train Weight is given.

However, we have been looking at another vehicle, the brochure of which gives the GVW AND a Gross Train Weight, and a trailer weight also of 1500 kg.
With this vehicle, if I were to load it to its GVW and my caravan to its 1500 kg MTPLM, the Gross Train Weight would be exceeded.
I would not recommend taking the risk of exceeding the Gross Train Weight.
Bertie.

If you check the VIN plate on the car, the gross train weight should be shown.

DrivenMad

14/8/2013 at 11:05am
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If the vehicles VIN plate does not show a GTW then the vehicle itself might not be designed to tow!!
Check your V5 logbook as well.
Sorry for any confusion, this is not as simple as posting questions on forums because you probably will not get the correct answer.
When it comes to towing anything there are loads of considerations and this is where the confusion starts, it is like opening a can of worms.
My best advice is to weigh every axle, this way you can calculate actual weights on each axle, vehicles GVW and GTW, trailers GVW.(and tyre load ratings)
These weights will depend on what loads you are adding and where you are placing them.

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