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Subject Topic: Have I made a mistake?
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Persontrakker1
24/8/2013 at 11:29pm
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Hi, I'm new to towing and have just bought a focus estate 1.8 td cl which has a kerb weight of 1295kg and a maximum tow weight of 1200kg however I have just started the ball rolling on a purchase for a van that has a 1225kg loaded weight.

Edit: V5C states 1380 Mass In Service

Is this legal, should I pull out of the deal?

Thanks in advance, I know this as been asked before but just need to be clear because I love the van.

Post last edited on 25/08/2013 00:53:54


PersonGary H
24/8/2013 at 11:44pm
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Short answer is, its legal.
However, the bad answer is because you have technically gone over the vehicle manufacturers recommended tow weight, you risk breaking something like clutch etc.
You are also way over the recommended tow vehicle / trailer weight ratio of 85% for the outfit itself. That is basicly the caravan is nearly 100% of the cars weight.
You are very dangerously close to tail wagging dog with this combination!
Pull out of deal?
Yes.

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Persontrakker1
25/8/2013 at 12:01am
 Location: Manchester
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I think it works out about 94%, which I was worried about but kept thinking about filling the car instead of the van and I would be fine, until noticing the maximum weight only being 1200kg.


Persontrakker1
25/8/2013 at 12:23am
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I have just got my V5C out to look at the weights listed because I have only been going off information I have found on the Internet about the car and it doesn't state the maximum towable weight, it's just blank? It does state that the vehicles Max. Permissible Mass (exc. m/c) is 1755 and the Mass In Service is 1380. Does this make the car heavier than I first thought?

Post last edited on 25/08/2013 00:32:44


Persontango55
25/8/2013 at 12:43am
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The match is around 95% which is rather excessive for a novice as the advice (not a legal requirement) is 85%. I used to tow with a Focus 1.6 diesel estate which was around the same match and even having 6 years towing experience I was cautious especially going down hill. Basically the caravan is pushing the car so if you haven't got the required vehicle kerbweight plus no experience it could lead to a snaking effect so under the circumstances it is critical to get the loading of the caravan and noseweight absolutely right. I found the Focus to be a good car but in terms of towing I changed to a Volvo V50 2.4 diesel which now the match is 83% with the same caravan to which I can definately feel the stabilty more now than previously. Basically I would pull out of the deal and probably go for the Focus 2.0 diesel as that would give you around 87% match with 136 bhp in comparison to the 1.8 diesel with about 118 bhp.


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PersonGrampian91
25/8/2013 at 12:47am
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How many passengers, Luggage, Pets?

I think there is a chance that you could exceed the gross train weight.

I wouldnt recommend towing with it. Way too close to the cars kerbweight.


Persontrakker1
25/8/2013 at 12:56am
 Location: Manchester
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Is the Mass in service on the V5C the actual weight? I was just going off a database online which stated 1295kg.

There are two adults, one child (4yrs), dog, luggage, awning, etc

I need to check the gross train weight on he chassis plate.

This is the lightest 2 berth in stock around the 2005, they seem to get heavier the newer you go.

Post last edited on 25/08/2013 01:07:30

Post last edited on 25/08/2013 01:19:42

Post last edited on 25/08/2013 01:21:06


Personbirdman101
25/8/2013 at 7:58am
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I have been caravanning 40 years and towed many thousand miles, i believe you will be pushing you luck not to be another statistic we hear of on the motoring news.


VangoMan02
25/8/2013 at 8:47am
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I tow a caravan with 1,100 kg max laden with my Focus 1.6 tdci.
V5 states 1435kg Mass in service, also states max technically permissable braked towing of 1300kg.
All the online figures state 1200kg recommended for towing which I am well within.

I also have 35+ years towing experience and would still not tow 100% of my car weight, I don't care how much experience you have you would stil be asking for trouble.

Now either Ford have got it wrong or online figures are. There are a lot of conflicting figures out there.

OP I would go to your local council weighbridge and get the car weighed to give you peace of mind and take it from there.

You will not have a problem if you stay within the weights recommended. Some people do try to tow a caravan that it obviously to heavy for the car..that does not make the car a bad one, just a poor choice on the owners part.

Get it weighed and work out your 85%ish from there and all will be well. I love my focus as I am well within the limits for the car.

I tend to run at around 1000kg laden..

Post last edited on 25/08/2013 09:08:13

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It is a wise man who has something to say.
It is a fool who has to say something.


Persontrakker1
25/8/2013 at 9:30am
 Location: Manchester
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My VIN reads:

Q. 1755
N. 2955
AP. 960
U2. 920/970


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Persontrakker1
25/8/2013 at 9:32am
 Location: Manchester
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So going of the figures above would make my gross 2955kg and the weight of the loaded car plus van comes to 2980kg so over!

So it's 25kg over at the fully loaded state which I would never hit but I'm still going to pull out because its pushing it to much, I have to think safety first.


VangoMan02
25/8/2013 at 9:38am
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Good idea, there are lighter vans out there.I have one.

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It is a wise man who has something to say.
It is a fool who has to say something.


Persontrakker1
25/8/2013 at 10:34am
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Cancelled, the search continues.

Thanks to everyone who helped me out.


VangoMan02
25/8/2013 at 11:34am
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Good luck with your search. Have a look at Ebay, type in lightweight caravans. You may not want to buy from Ebay but it will generally give you an idea of what is available. Weights ,different layout etc.
There are other sites to look at but its at least a starting point.

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It is a wise man who has something to say.
It is a fool who has to say something.


Persontango55
25/8/2013 at 1:45pm
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It would be advisable to avoid the 1.8 tdi anyway as I understand that Ford had some serious problems with that particular engine that's why they only manufacture the 1.6 & 2.0 ltr. diesels now. As I said previously the 2.0 ltr. diesel may be a better option as I have some details below so you can work out the match. The details below have been taken from the official Ford Focus Mk2 brochure which may be of help.

Kerbweight = 1429 kgs. 

Engine Power = 136 bhp

Engine Torque = 251 Lbs/ft.

Manual 6 speed gearbox ( lower revs for fuel economy when solo )

Fuel consumption:

39.2 urban  /  61.3 extra urban  /  50.4 combined.

 


PersonGrampian91
25/8/2013 at 1:46pm
 Location: Midlands
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Vangoman i think the OPs car is the older 1.8TD, Thats why its a lot lighter.

Thats the issue with newer vans they got loaded with extra goodies. Pushing the weight up.

Just because a vans smaller doesnt always mean its lighter also. I have to keep pointing this out to my wife.

My Avondale is 23ft long yet weighs 1150kg gross laden. With an unladen of under 900kg.

Side diner with a decent sized rear bathroom, Front seating is over 6th so you could have 2 single beds, Or a standard sized double or even lower the front cabinet and make a huge bed.



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