Home

   Log in or Register



Insurance Quotes
forums Campsite Search Comp Directory tips virtual brochure Profile
Tent and Awning Reviews Competitions Caravans and Motorhomes For Sale Shopping Diary Advent Calendar

Advertisement

Message Forums

Welcome Guest Register Login Search The Forum Posts Since Last Visit
 Reception - All Forums
   Caravans and Caravanning -  Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice
Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email  Printer Friendly Version Print
Subject Topic: Downplating / reducing MTPLM on VIN Plate
Page:  1  2 Post Reply Post New Topic
07/10/2013 at 6:32pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: None Entered
View wilf54's Profile View Profile   Reply to wilf54 Reply   Quote wilf54 Quote  
Joined: 14/6/2011

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   17

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

We are hoping to upgrade our caravan due to our growing family. As I have a new style (post 97) license I believe I am limited to 3,500kg for the combined MAM of the car and caravan.

We have found a caravan we really like, but when I add the MTPLM to the gross (max) weight of the car we are 10kg over 3,500kg. We don't NEED to load the caravan to the max, indeed we would be happy to reduce the max payload by 10/11kg.

Has anyone been able to get a new plate made with reduced weight? If so how have you done this?

I have seen plenty of people reporting that they have had the MTPLM increased, but not seen any reductions. I could understand there would be a problem with a big reduction as it would be too easy to overload, but surely 10kg is neither here not there.

I could swap to a lighter, less able tow car, but for obvious reasons I am trying to avoid this. The current car is a good match for the caravan, it is just the license restriction which is getting in the way...

Thanks!


07/10/2013 at 7:07pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Mondeo Avondale Gram
View Grampian91's Profile View Profile   Reply to Grampian91 Reply   Quote Grampian91 Quote  
Joined: 11/5/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6893

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Usually you contact the manufacturer who will replate it, But from what i have read they will increase but not decrease the payload.

Its possible that the caravan may weigh more than the unladen plated weight anyway.



07/10/2013 at 7:18pm
 Location: Lancaster
 Outfit: Landcruiser & Avondale Mayfair 510-5L
View ChrisPolly+Oscar's Profile View Profile   Reply to ChrisPolly+Oscar Reply   Quote ChrisPolly+Oscar Quote  
Joined: 30/1/2011

Silver Member
Silver Member

Forum Posts:   134

Site Reviews Total: 4
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I know you can have a chassis re-rated upward, and our old bus was re-rated downwards to enable a different insurance & MOT category. We did this via VOSA, or whatever they were called before, from memory. Maybe you can rate downward rate a trailer or caravan chassis?

As a side note, if your spouse is older than you & has the B&E on their license, a couple of L plates is an easy way round it...

Probably not, but its a thought.

-------------
Regards
Chris
Caravanning for 22 years
1997 Toyota Land Cruiser 3.0TD & 2004 Avondale Mayfair 510-5L
Previous towcars:
2002 Nissan Primera - sold
2002 Ford Galaxy - Died & scrapped. Good riddance.
1998 BMW 525TDS SE - PEx
1998 VW Passat SE - Crashed into & scrapped
1997 Peugeot 406 GLX - PEx


07/10/2013 at 7:21pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: None Entered
View wilf54's Profile View Profile   Reply to wilf54 Reply   Quote wilf54 Quote  
Joined: 14/6/2011

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   17

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Thanks Grampian91,

I will contact the manufacturer and see what they say.

I take in board the potential that the caravan is already above the unladen weight. I belive the tolerance at construction is something like +/- 5%. I can't remwber whether the payload is 200kg or 250kg, either way we don't need anyhing like that (yes it would be nice in an ideal world, but happy just to carry gas, spare wheel and pots and pans in the caravan)


07/10/2013 at 7:26pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: None Entered
View wilf54's Profile View Profile   Reply to wilf54 Reply   Quote wilf54 Quote  
Joined: 14/6/2011

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   17

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Thanks Chris, I tried VOSA and they are only interested in vehicles with an engine or trailers over 3,500kg (ie truck trailers).

I'm sure it must be possible I just don't know how!

Unfortunately my wife doesn't have b+e. Both sets of parents do but that isn't always handy for holidays ;-)


Advertisement



07/10/2013 at 7:45pm
 Location: Lancaster
 Outfit: Landcruiser & Avondale Mayfair 510-5L
View ChrisPolly+Oscar's Profile View Profile   Reply to ChrisPolly+Oscar Reply   Quote ChrisPolly+Oscar Quote  
Joined: 30/1/2011

Silver Member
Silver Member

Forum Posts:   134

Site Reviews Total: 4
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by wilf54 on 07/10/2013
Thanks Chris, I tried VOSA and they are only interested in vehicles with an engine or trailers over 3,500kg (ie truck trailers).

I'm sure it must be possible I just don't know how!

Unfortunately my wife doesn't have b+e. Both sets of parents do but that isn't always handy for holidays ;-)



Worth a try!!
Yeah, the bus is now down to 13 ton.
This was the only piece I could find, but doesnt mention min weights VOSA Click

-------------
Regards
Chris
Caravanning for 22 years
1997 Toyota Land Cruiser 3.0TD & 2004 Avondale Mayfair 510-5L
Previous towcars:
2002 Nissan Primera - sold
2002 Ford Galaxy - Died & scrapped. Good riddance.
1998 BMW 525TDS SE - PEx
1998 VW Passat SE - Crashed into & scrapped
1997 Peugeot 406 GLX - PEx


07/10/2013 at 8:00pm
 Location: LEICESTER
 Outfit: None Entered
View ROG.'s Profile View Profile   Reply to ROG. Reply   Quote ROG. Quote  
Joined: 19/1/2012

Gold Member
Gold Member

Forum Posts:   392

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

/Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 07/10/2013/
sually you contact the manufacturer who will replate it, But from what i have read they will increase but not decrease the payload.

Its possible that the caravan may weigh more than the unladen plated weight anyway.



If the caravan does weigh more than the unladen weight then it does not matter legally because that rule for B licence towing was revoked for all B licence holders on 19/01/2013 - that is fact

Reducing the caravan MTPLM by contacting the manufacturer will be much easier than trying to get a vehicle manufacturer to reduce the GVW

 



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


07/10/2013 at 8:05pm
 Location: Teesside
 Outfit:  Mitsubishi ASX4
View freeatlast's Profile View Profile   Reply to freeatlast Reply   Quote freeatlast Quote  
Joined: 23/3/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   2135

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by wilf54 on 07/10/2013
Thanks Grampian91,

I will contact the manufacturer and see what they say.

I take in board the potential that the caravan is already above the unladen weight. I belive the tolerance at construction is something like +/- 5%. I can't remwber whether the payload is 200kg or 250kg, either way we don't need anyhing like that (yes it would be nice in an ideal world, but happy just to carry gas, spare wheel and pots and pans in the caravan)


No clothes, books, toiletries, food, cleaning materials, water and waste bottles, TV or a battery?

Battery weighs in at 20-30kg depending on size, and what about the water in the system? Our small van uses 20 litres of water to fill the pipes and the heater at the start of the season. Another 20kg. Don't forget any water in the toilet system, could easily add another 10kg.
The weight's mounting up!



07/10/2013 at 8:23pm
 Location:  Dumfries
 Outfit: 2022 CoachmanVIP 2022 Pilote P696GJ
View neil and lena's Profile View Profile   Reply to neil and lena Reply   Quote neil and lena Quote  
Joined: 18/2/2007

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   2370

Site Reviews Total: 51
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 1  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 4
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by wilf54 on 07/10/2013
We are hoping to upgrade our caravan due to our growing family. As I have a new style (post 97) license I believe I am limited to 3,500kg for the combined MAM of the car and caravan.

We have found a caravan we really like, but when I add the MTPLM to the gross (max) weight of the car we are 10kg over 3,500kg. We don't NEED to load the caravan to the max, indeed we would be happy to reduce the max payload by 10/11kg.

Has anyone been able to get a new plate made with reduced weight? If so how have you done this?

I have seen plenty of people reporting that they have had the MTPLM increased, but not seen any reductions. I could understand there would be a problem with a big reduction as it would be too easy to overload, but surely 10kg is neither here not there.

I could swap to a lighter, less able tow car, but for obvious reasons I am trying to avoid this. The current car is a good match for the caravan, it is just the license restriction which is getting in the way...

Thanks!



Why don't you just do the B+E test


07/10/2013 at 9:29pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: None Entered
View wilf54's Profile View Profile   Reply to wilf54 Reply   Quote wilf54 Quote  
Joined: 14/6/2011

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   17

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Thanks for the replies - they are appreciated.

Quote:
If the caravan does weigh more than the unladen weight then it does not matter legally because that rule for B licence towing was revoked for all B licence holders on 19/01/2013 - that is fact



I took the original comment to mean that the caravan may actually weighs more unladen than the unladen weight on the plate (eg the manufacturer may have used more material than expected).
Interesting about the rule about the MAM of the trailer needing to be less than the kerbweight of the car being revoked. Except for the difficulties of finding out the kerbweight of the car I think this generally guides people towards a good match.

"freeatlast" - yes I will need to add a battery. I hadn't made any allowance for the water - our current van holds hardly any water so thanks for pointing it out.
So:
2 x small gas cylinders = 40kg?
water = 30kg
battery = 20kg
pots & pans, leg winder = 30kg
total = 120kg

From what I can see online the current payload is 255kg, so if we take away the 11kg reduction then the 120kg, we are left with 124kg remaining.

If we buy the van I guess we need to use check the actual weights on a weighbridge. Then we would know how much of the calculated 124kg is actually available to use.

Ideally we would like to carry the other things you listed (tv, cleaning bits, clothes etc), but we can carry these in the car.

"neil and lena" - I am trying to avoid the cost of the B+E - exam fees and then trailer hire for the two of us to take the test. I have also heard that the pass rate is quite low so we may end up with one/both of us failing. I hear that a lot of people recommend some professional tuition to help.



Advertisement



07/10/2013 at 10:04pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Mondeo Avondale Gram
View Grampian91's Profile View Profile   Reply to Grampian91 Reply   Quote Grampian91 Quote  
Joined: 11/5/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6893

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

My manual says +/- 5% But i read a letter in one of the mags that a brand new caravan was only 60kg below its gross laden weight whilst unladen.

The expected loading margin of 200+ kg was gone.

It always makes me think now. A trip to a weighbridge maybe in order before you start loading.



07/10/2013 at 10:17pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: None Entered
View wilf54's Profile View Profile   Reply to wilf54 Reply   Quote wilf54 Quote  
Joined: 14/6/2011

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   17

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Grampian91 on 07/10/2013
My manual says +/- 5% But i read a letter in one of the mags that a brand new caravan was only 60kg below its gross laden weight whilst unladen.



Surely there must have been something wrong with the caravan? Assuming the original allowance was 200kg, for the caravan to be 140kg heavier than expected a lot of extra materials would have had to have been used. I mean I can easily understand 30-40kg of variance based on exact size of timbers used, number of nails and fixings, changes in the appliances etc, but 140kg is in another league!

If we buy the caravan we would definitely weigh it. Assuming it doesn't have the strange weight problem that the caravan in the magazine was affected by, I am convinced we could afford to loose 11kg of capacity.

Definitely made me think too!


08/10/2013 at 7:51am
 Location: Shropshire
 Outfit: Sterling Eccles SR 636 Nissan Navara
View bobsbabes's Profile View Profile   Reply to bobsbabes Reply   Quote bobsbabes Quote  
Joined: 22/5/2008

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   2584
Tent Reviews:   1

Site Reviews Total: 15
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

If you really like the van why not do your test ? Then your choice is so much wider xx

-------------
hello


08/10/2013 at 10:02am
 Location: Lancashire
 Outfit:  Volvo X60 Coachman
View bessie500's Profile View Profile   Reply to bessie500 Reply   Quote bessie500 Quote  
Joined: 11/9/2006

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   2094

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 11
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

My advice would be to take the test, I think it cost £50 to replate a caravan anyway, Surely it cant be that hard  look at my chart below it's really easy to run away with weights, in my eyes its better to be safe than sorry.

van  car 
25 meter cable  /  weighed               4.5  
            Ramp and blocks 2  
110 amp battery  weighed               27  
BP Gaslight  10  
spare wheel etc  weighed              19  
aqua role  weighed              4  
wastemaster / fluid   weighed          6  
Awning and poles    30
oval table   weighed             5  
chairs      x 4      3.5 14
cadac             15
Tv   3.19  
quilt and 4 pillows / sleeping bag          weighed              9  
pegs, mallet, drill etc say      est           5  
towels, bathrobe toiletries     weighed           5  
cutlery, plates kettle knifes and forks                     6  
shoes     
air bed inner tent   3.5
groundsheet               weighed              8  
toiletries 2.5  
windbreak               weighed           3.5  
games /  lights  5  
Clothes      
Surf boards    10
Food 10  
Booze     
jack   10
Total 138 67

  



08/10/2013 at 12:34pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: None Entered
View wilf54's Profile View Profile   Reply to wilf54 Reply   Quote wilf54 Quote  
Joined: 14/6/2011

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   17

Site Reviews Total: 1
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Just had a look online. The b+e test is £115 during normal working hours and £141 during evenings and weekends.


08/10/2013 at 12:49pm
 Location: Lancashire
 Outfit:  Volvo X60 Coachman
View bessie500's Profile View Profile   Reply to bessie500 Reply   Quote bessie500 Quote  
Joined: 11/9/2006

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   2094

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 11
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I'd take it, sooner or later you'll take it anyway as caravans & cars are getting heavier. As you can see from my spreadsheet the weight creeps up i've already got over 200 kgs and thats without clothes   good job i'm a nudist eh

 

bessie




In order to post a reply you will need to register, or if already registered please log in here

Prev       Next

Jump To Page:  1  2

Quick Links - All Forums - Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice - Top of Page

Printer Friendly Version Printable version      Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email


Latest News, Discounts and Competitions  see all...














7456 Visitors online !

Free UKCampsite.co.uk Window Sticker  -  Recommend to Friend  -  Add a Missing Campsite

[Message Forums]  [Caravan Sites & Camping]  [Company Listings]  [Features / Advice]  [Virtual Brochure]  [Shop!]
[Reception]  [Competitions]  [Caravans & Motorhomes For Sale]  [Event Diary]  [Contact Us]  [Tent Reviews



Please note we are not responsible for the content of external sites & any reviews represent the author's personal view only. Please report any error here. You may view our privacy and cookie policy and terms and conditions here. All copyrights & other intellectual property rights in the design and content of this web site are reserved to the UKCampsite.co.uk © 1999 - 2024


Advertisement


Advertisement


UKCampsite.co.uk
2024 Advent Calendar


Advent Calendar

24 Daily Prizes PLUS a Christmas Day Star Prize worth £999

Request a Reminder