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Topic: Misleading caravan towing limits

Tall Bloke

20/10/2013 at 8:56pm
Location: West Midlands
Outfit: Fleetwood Chatsworth 580

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I was at the NEC Caravan Show yesterday and there was a Ssangyong Korando attached to a caravan with a sign on the side reading "I'M A HEAVY WEIGHT AT 1,650KG AND I CAN PULL 2000KG.......CARAVAN CLUB TOW CAR OF THE YEAR...".(by my calculations that's 121% of the car weight.

I'M FAIRLY NEW TO CARAVANNING AND I HAD GOOD ADVICE ON THIS SITE WHEN I WAS LOOKING FOR A TOW CAR AND I LOOKED TO KEEP TO THE 85% LIMIT. THE ABOVE IS VERY MISLEADING.

HOW CAN THE ORGANISERS OF THE SHOW LET ADVERTS SUCH AS THE ABOVE BE PUT ON DISPLAY AT A MAJOR CARAVAN SHOW??

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Tall Bloke

Petemate

20/10/2013 at 9:07pm
Location: Kennington OXFORD
Outfit: 2005 Eccles Sterling Topaz 2 berth

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Very good post - I wonder if anyone from the company which carried the advertising frequents this forum? Doubt it! The vehicle in question may well have a towing limit of 2000 kg, but not for a bleddy great thing like a caravan on the back thank you very much.
LOL
Pete

Graeme_Cooke

20/10/2013 at 9:26pm
Location: County Durham
Outfit: Elddis Encore 254

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This is the sort of thing you get on motoring shows when caravans are mentioned. I dread to think what would happen to a 1,650KG car when a 2 tonne caravan starts to snake. Car on its side I suspect.

The other important note would be the nose weight. Using the a 7% nose weight rule would give a weight at the tow ball of 140KG. I imagine that the the Ssangyong won't handle more than 100KG.

All in all information given from car dealers is very misleading. Most caravaners know this stuff but newbies may find out the hard way.

Jack+Jon

21/10/2013 at 7:50am
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Difficult one. The max tow weight of a car is based on starting on a 1 in 8 hill towing that weight, its part of the spec of the car same as quoted axle weights etc. The quoted towbar download(noseweight)figure on any car is related to strength of towbar mountings on bodywork & not related to any noseweight/trailer weight ratio.

So none of these figures relate to safe driving or loading of car, they are simply technical maximum limits & it is for the driver to ensure the car is safely loaded within those limits & safe to drive. If a car is on display at an exibition then one would expect there the specifications for that car displayed also to allow potential customers to decide if the car would be suitable for them.

So no laws broken here & was it misleading? No, because the car can tow 2tonnes, so advertising standards would not be interested which brings us back to the organizers of the show, NCC events, did the op complain directly to them? Even if they, the exibitor could argue their advertising was not misleading.

So back to the driver, if he wants to tow a caravan it is his responsiblity to ensure his outfit is safe to tow based on information he should take from a variety of sources, not just a car salesman trying to shift metal any way he can, as car salesmen do.

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Regards, Jack+Jon.

ROG.

21/10/2013 at 10:22am
Location: LEICESTER
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I have been wondering for some time if the old 85% advice is now well out of date for towing with modern vehicles?

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EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
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iank01

21/10/2013 at 1:21pm
Location: Worcestershire
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Quote: Originally posted by Tall Bloke on 20/10/2013
I was at the NEC Caravan Show yesterday and there was a Ssangyong Korando attached to a caravan with a sign on the side reading "I'M A HEAVY WEIGHT AT 1,650KG AND I CAN PULL 2000KG.......CARAVAN CLUB TOW CAR OF THE YEAR...".(by my calculations that's 121% of the car weight.

I'M FAIRLY NEW TO CARAVANNING AND I HAD GOOD ADVICE ON THIS SITE WHEN I WAS LOOKING FOR A TOW CAR AND I LOOKED TO KEEP TO THE 85% LIMIT. THE ABOVE IS VERY MISLEADING.

HOW CAN THE ORGANISERS OF THE SHOW LET ADVERTS SUCH AS THE ABOVE BE PUT ON DISPLAY AT A MAJOR CARAVAN SHOW??

Not sure why you think the advert is misleading if it is stating the correct capabilities of the vehicle in question. My Jeep has a gross weight of about 2800kgs and can tow up to 3500kgs safely. The 85% is only a guideline.

Jack+Jon

21/10/2013 at 1:49pm
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"I have been wondering for some time if the old 85% advice is now well out of date for towing with modern vehicles?"

Not really because the same dynamics apply. If you are presented with a potential accident situation at motorway speeds & have to take abrupt evasive action, then although a modern vehicle will have better roadholding than an older one, have antilock brakes & the caravan will most likely have a stabiliser etc, you still have less chance of recovery the heavier the caravan compared with towcar weight whatever vehicle/caravan you have.

What does need to be emphasised is that the techical max tow weight of any car bears no relation as to what is safe to tow. So really questions like 'is it safe to tow at 95%' cannot be answered on a forum, it is really for the driver to know the answer himself.

In my 40yrs of HGV1 driving I took plenty of chances with dodgy loads as all lorry drivers do from time to time but I was ok because I drove accordingly. An experienced HGV driver will know that 25tonnes of steel bar properly strapped down will corner much better than a mega trailer load of washing machines & drive accordingly.

So as a general rule the 85% suggestion remains good one for anybody who needs guidance & for anybody that wants an easy comfortable drive. For anybody else then it is for them to decide based on the knowledge/experience they have & not based on the knowledge/experience of others who post on forums.

I'm sure with my accrued knowledge I could drive just about anything safely but who am I to assume somebody else could if I advise them so on a forum?

Post last edited on 21/10/2013 17:17:37

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Regards, Jack+Jon.

emmitdb

21/10/2013 at 7:09pm
Location: Cornwall
Outfit: Hobby 650 Ec low profile motorhome

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Greetings,

I remember putting a similar response to a thread sometime ago.
In essence it goes like this. My mate has a caravan. He also has a Top of the range Range Rover that has a towing capacity of 3500kgs. My mate, on occasion tows a trailer that weighs in the region of but NOT over 3500kgs.
However, this trailer is fairly compact in size sits very low to the ground and is used to transport metal from various shows that my mate attends. He does so at a relatively slow speed with the knowledge of what he is transporting.
I've discussed this very subject with him and he and I both agree that there is the world of difference between towing his 'Metal' container and a caravan. He would never, even though it would be perfectly legal to do so, tow a caravan with anywhere near that kind of weight because of all the inherent problems in doing so.

My own towcar can legally tow around 107% of it's kerb weight but I wouldn't even consider it on a road.

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How come when some people visit the fountain of knowledge, they only gargle!!!

listerdiesel

22/10/2013 at 8:39am
Location: Rushden Northants
Outfit: Mercedes 614D Conversion

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Regulars on here will know that we have a large 6-wheel turntable drawbar trailer/RV that is our living van and also takes our display engine which weights 1.3 tonnes by itself.

That is just under 3500kgs and we tow with a Discovery 2 V8.

In terms of handling, the 6-wheel configuration with an axle at the front and two at the rear makes it very stable, especially in cross-winds, and with 6 braked wheels it is no trouble to tow at normal speeds.

However, I wouldn't suggest that it is the ideal combination for everyone, as a lot of folks wouldn't be happy with that weight behind them, but believe me it is quite safe and handleable, as long as you don't do anything stupid, which is much the same for all towing if you think about it.

Peter

brianconwy

22/10/2013 at 5:31pm
Location: north wales
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With regards to towball weight if it is over the limit for the vehicle it can affect the steering as it is effectively taking weight off the front wheels. Even if you are within the limit and towing with a front wheel drive car the front wheels will have less traction on a hill on a wet road. I remember when we towed with a front wheel drive car and had a lot of wheelspin pulling away uphill from a junction on a wet road and we were well within our weight limits.

LobeyDosser

22/10/2013 at 7:37pm
Location: Argyll Scotland
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My Dacia Duster quotes being able to tow 2000kg.

It tows my caravan which is 84% of the car's kerb weight.

However it is nice to know, that if needed, I have the option of 4 wheel drive and a higher towing capacity to get the van out of mud or snow.

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Lobey.

listerdiesel

23/10/2013 at 8:32am
Location: Rushden Northants
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If you look at the picture I posted previously, we were on a soft corn/wheat field which caused a bit of sinking of the trailer, and we had to drive uphill across the field to get there.

Probably would have been a tractor available to help, but we got up there OK and off again on the Monday morning with no problems. 4WD is a blessing in these conditions.

Sunday evening was brilliant, superb sunset:

Peter

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