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Subject Topic: S-Max, Noseweight, Twin Axle
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PersonWhite Rose
01/3/2014 at 1:21am
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I'm looking at buying an S-Max with a noseweight figure of 90kg. I'm not sure what caravan we will be buying, but the layout we want is more common in a twin axle. I've just been playing with a couple of options on the Caravan Club towcar match, and am coming up with noseweight warnings at 110%, saying "it may be hard to load the caravan (especially a twin axle) to give acceptable car and adequate caravan noseweight figures".

Can anyone tell me their experiences, please? I don't want to limit our possible towing options too much, and am already slightly concerned that we could be running at a possible kerbweight ratio of 90-94% on my hypothetical plans...


PersonRob and Tina
01/3/2014 at 10:11am
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We had a Galaxy with a max noseweight of 90kg but the towbar had a max of 75kg so you'll have to check the tow bar spec as well.

Rob


PersonWhite Rose
01/3/2014 at 11:02am
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Now that's confused me :-) Why would the towbar be lower than the noseweight - talk me through that one slowly, as the technical bits can still leave me squinting!!


PersonRob and Tina
01/3/2014 at 11:09am
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It confused me too!!

It was a Witter detachable one so it may have been due to being detachable, perhaps a swan or fixed ball still has a 90kg limit.

Luckily I only needed around 70kg so it wasn't a problem.

Rob


PersonRob and Tina
01/3/2014 at 11:14am
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I've just had a quick look at the Witter site. The detachable has a max noseweight of 80kg and the fixed has a 90kg limit. So either they have changed the figures since mine was fitted or I've got my figures wrong (quite possible at my age).

Rob


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PersonSkoda Bob
01/3/2014 at 12:48pm
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Always aim for a van nose weight about 30% below what the manufacturers state for the tow ball, never load it to the max, you could hit a pothole or go over a speed bump and the tow snaps


PersonWhite Rose
01/3/2014 at 12:51pm
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Thank you both - so is it common to have noseweight issues with twin axle vans?


Personcheckley1973
01/3/2014 at 4:51pm
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Yes that's why they tend to be pulled by large 4x4


Personmichell8
01/3/2014 at 5:02pm
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I'm not sure what you mean by 'noseweight issues'? Just load the caravan to achieve around 90kg noseweight & job is done. Of course you can run a car at max specified noseweight, there will be a large safety margin built in.

If you are going for a caravan of say 1600kg all up then really noseweight should be around 110kg, ie about 7% & caravan may be designed to achieve that weight with even loading so either get a lighter caravan, trade S Max in for a heavy 4x4 with more than adequate noseweight limit or load caravan with rear bias if necessary for a 90kg noseweight & drive careful, cruise along with the trucks at 55mph on the motorway.


PersonSkoda Bob
01/3/2014 at 6:29pm
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Max skoda superb NW, 85KG, actual NW 65KG perfect stability, due to the van being loaded correctly


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PersonGreendemon315
01/3/2014 at 8:25pm
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Not really as easy as that. If you load the van to achieve a less than ideal noseweight, just to accommodate the car, you will have stability issues.

The caravan needs its quoted noseweight in order to be stable. You need a car and a caravan with fairly closely matching nose weights. That is why you need something really substantial to tow a large twin axle.
Always a mistake to skimp on the towcar, and noseweight.
Jim


PersonWhite Rose
01/3/2014 at 9:48pm
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"Noseweight issues" is perhaps the wrong word - I think my questioning stems from the fact that the picture was changing not with the weight of the caravan but with the twin axle-ness of the van.

For example, I've just looked at the S-Max with a big old single axle Buccaneer Clipper with an MTPLM of 1622 - too heavy for me to feel comfortable towing at 96%, but the Noseweight guide says 111% and "The car's nose weight should be fine to safely tow this caravan. If this figure is high, however, (typically over 100%) care will be needed to load the caravan so that the car’s nose weight limit is not exceeded, but this should be practically achievable. Aim for 5-7% of the caravan’s actual laden weight without overloading the car."

However, if I look at the S-Max against a twin axle Lunar Quasar FB with an MTPLM of 1550 (70-odd kg lighter than the Buccaneer but still heavier than I would like at 92% kerbweight). The Noseweight guide still says 111% but this time " If a nose weight figure is listed, it may be hard to load the caravan (especially a twin axle) to give acceptable car and adequate caravan nose weight. Aim for 5-7% of the caravan’s actual laden weight without overloading the car or the caravan’s front axle/tyres."

The Santa Fe we currently tow with is big enough to handle most caravans we have liked - and I agree, the last thing we want to be doing is to skimp on the towcar. I'd anticipated having to keep a close eye on kerbweight, but not that all twin axles would automatically represent a problem for noseweight regardless of weight. Is it just simply because having the extra wheels makes it harder to shift the weight backwards?


Personmichell8
01/3/2014 at 10:19pm
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Its easy to shift the weight backwards, just dump the awning in the back & have spare wheel underneath rear & not in gas locker. Its not an exact science, as long as it tows ok, its ok. If you're pulling a lot of weight then you drive more carefully, If you're not confident with that then keep your Santa Fe or get a smaller caravan for the S Max.

Tbf, you see very few twin axles pulled by 2wd cars, virtually all are pulled by larger 4x4s like Discos or Santa Fes etc, which should tell you something. If you push things to the limit then you have to cut corners as I have described.


Personcheckley1973
01/3/2014 at 10:42pm
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I did see a vauxhall insignia pulling along a huge hobby twin axle on the M5 the other day. He couldn't even keep it in one Lane or keep his speed above 40 when climbing. I was gob smacked, the cars rear was almost on the road !


PersonSkoda Bob
02/3/2014 at 2:56pm
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Quote: Originally posted by checkley1973 on 01/3/2014
I did see a vauxhall insignia pulling along a huge hobby twin axle on the M5 the other day. He couldn't even keep it in one Lane or keep his speed above 40 when climbing. I was gob smacked, the cars rear was almost on the road !


That's another reason to go below the max noseweight, to stop the tail wagging the dog


PersonSkoda Bob
02/3/2014 at 2:58pm
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max nose weight, means you can load the hitch up to that weight it doesn't mean that's the weight you load it to



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