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Subject Topic: Legal Towing Limit
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PersonLobeyDosser
04/5/2014 at 12:05am
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Okay, My Dacia Duster has a Kerb Weight of 1369kg.
Under the 85% rule that would be 1164kg.
But it says that the Duster has a Legal Towing Limit of 1500kg.

So, can I tow up to 1500kg or must I stick to the Kerb Weight of the vehicle?

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Lobey.


Persontango55
04/5/2014 at 12:50am
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The majority of vehicle manufacturers will specify a towing limit that the vehicle is capable of pulling as a mass weight. That means that under the research and development stage they will not only undertake a series of crash tests but also test the towing capability to it's absolute maximum limits. They will then apply a towing limit that will not cause any stress or distortion to the chassis but this figure can outweighs the kerbweight of the vehicle and is no means a figure as a safe match for towing. So basically the 1500 kgs. is not a legal towing limit, it's the towing capability of the car so you need to adhere to figures relating the vehicle kerbweight.


Personthebroons30
04/5/2014 at 5:01am
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The 85% is only a guideline so you can tow more than 1164kg but still keeping under the cars kerbweight.

I did consider a Duster when I recently changed car as there is a dealer very close by but the low kerbweight made the car unsuitable as my current van is 1455 kg.


Personmillermicm
04/5/2014 at 7:52am
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The 85% is only advice. Not a hard & fast rule. It could be exceeded for experienced towers but there comes a point where the caravan is in charge - not the car so care is required.

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Steve


Personjanus
04/5/2014 at 9:56am
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Legally you could tow up to the 1500kg, but sensibly you should tow no more than 1369kg and probably would be better sticking in the region of 1200kg.

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Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


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PersonLobeyDosser
04/5/2014 at 11:10am
 Location: Argyll Scotland
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Sorry, but I am still not getting this.

Forget the 85% rule, I know all about that.

If a vehicle weighs X amount, like in my case 1369kg, why does the handbook state that it can LEGALLY TOW a higher than the KERB Weight of the car, in my case 1500kg?

I have seen this higher weight limit on other 4X4's.

I do not doubt that the Duster could physically tow 1500kg quite comfortably, it is the Term "LEGALLY TOW" that is puzzling me.   

-------------
Lobey.


PersonROG.
04/5/2014 at 1:10pm
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Quote: Originally posted by LobeyDosser on 04/5/2014
Sorry, but I am still not getting this.

Forget the 85% rule, I know all about that.

If a vehicle weighs X amount, like in my case 1369kg, why does the handbook state that it can LEGALLY TOW a higher than the KERB Weight of the car, in my case 1500kg?

I have seen this higher weight limit on other 4X4's.

I do not doubt that the Duster could physically tow 1500kg quite comfortably, it is the Term "LEGALLY TOW" that is puzzling me.   

Many vehicles be they cars or artic units can tow a weight which is higher than kerbweight

A vehicle will have been designed to do certain things safely by the manufacturer and then weight plated along with a safe maximum towing capacity which is usually the plated GTW minus the GVW

Caravans by their design are more unstable than other forms of trailer so extra advise based on kerb weights have been issued but are not law

Does that help?





-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


PersonROG.
04/5/2014 at 1:12pm
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LEGALLY TOWING means keeping within the maximum towing limit under C&U reg 100 and within the plated weights under the RTA

there is no law anywhere which states that a vehicle cannot tow more than its kerb weight

-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


PersonLobeyDosser
04/5/2014 at 1:33pm
 Location: Argyll Scotland
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Thanks ROG.
I read a lot on here and on other forums about Mass Running weights and all that, but they appear to go out the window when the stated Towing Weight is above that of the vehicle's Kerb Weight.

In actual fact my present van comes in just under the 85%, but, in the future I may go for a heavier van and I would like to think that I would be safe to do so without having to change my car as I do like the Duster.

-------------
Lobey.


Personkpnuts81
04/5/2014 at 1:48pm
 Location: Warwickshire
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Lobey hows the duster towing?


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PersonROG.
04/5/2014 at 1:54pm
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Quote: Originally posted by LobeyDosser on 04/5/2014
Thanks ROG.
I read a lot on here and on other forums about Mass Running weights and all that, but they appear to go out the window when the stated Towing Weight is above that of the vehicle's Kerb Weight.

In actual fact my present van comes in just under the 85%, but, in the future I may go for a heavier van and I would like to think that I would be safe to do so without having to change my car as I do like the Duster.

With caravans being different to other sorts of trailer then having a caravan which is heavier than what the vehicle weighs at the time of towing can cause the tail to wag the dog and that is why the safety advice has been issued for this type of trailer

If a car weighed say 1500 empty with a max towing limit of 1800 and at the actual time of towing the car weighed 1650 with a caravan actually weighing 1800 then it would be legal but in all probability unsafe



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


Persontango55
04/5/2014 at 2:27pm
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Regarding my first post I tried to explain where the vehicle manufacturers actually get their towing statistics from but it's not related to safe towing by any means. Now my Volvo V50 has a kerbweight of 1568 kgs. and the handbook states that the maximum towing weight is 1500 kgs. so with a caravan hitched up that would be towing at virtually a 100% match. Legally I can do it but whether it's a safe outfit for travelling at 60 mph. is another question. Basically the manufacturer's statement is that the vehicle can LEGALLY tow a 1500 Kg. trailer at a low speed ie. from one field to another whereby only a slow speed is required because the car has the LEGAL capability of doing just that. If was to hitch up a 1500 kg. caravan and LEGALLY tow down the motorway at 60 mph. I may encounter quite a different outcome as the higher speed and weight is likely cause some kind of snaking which is not recommended. The handbook details are there for a guide, not a hard and fast rule for safe towing.


PersonLobeyDosser
04/5/2014 at 2:44pm
 Location: Argyll Scotland
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Thanks all.

I do understand about safe towing weights and all that.

My question here was about the wording LEGAL Towing Weight.

If I am towing and I was pulled in for a weight inspection, would the inspectors go by the Kerb Weight or by the Legal (as stipulated in the Handbook) Towing Weight?

One of the reasons we went for the Duster is that towing a caravan out of a muddy field would obviously require a heavier pull than just the weight of the caravan and therefore to have that extra oomph of 4 wheel drive and the higher towing capacity is an advantage, but I also wanted to know which of the "legal" towing weights a roadside inspection would consider.

-------------
Lobey.


Persontango55
04/5/2014 at 3:02pm
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The Police would probably go by the vehicle's towing weight limit actually as the responsibility of safe towing is solely down to the driver. However, if a third party was involved in a collision whereby an insurance claim was made the insurance could take a different view so the outcome could lead to a court case as the definition of legal towing would be debatable.


PersonROG.
04/5/2014 at 3:08pm
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legal weight limits have absolutely nothing to do with kerb weights

What makes you think they do?

-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


Personvwalan
04/5/2014 at 3:40pm
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think about weights . many trucks pull trailers that are 4-5times heavier than the tow truck . to be an artic at least 20% of the trailers loaded weight must impose on the vehicle . but that leaves a very heavy trailer behind .
rog ..is totally correct . there is no legal limmit only the train weight of the towing vehicle .
i build units that are 7.5ton trucks voluntarily lowered to 3.500kg gvw that have the original train weight of 11ton . yet only weigh 2,600kg . all legal .and can be driven on a b+e driving licence pre 97.
ideal for older drivers when they get to 70 yr old no need for the medical yet can still have a good size fifth wheel camper.

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vwalan



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