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Subject Topic: Plated weights
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PersonWibsey
26/8/2014 at 11:46am
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Hi can you lovely people help my Hubby with a conversation he had in the pub last night?

Is it legal to tow a caravan that has plated MTPLM that is greater than your cars maximum towing weight, even if the MRO is less than the cars maximum?


Personlisterdiesel
26/8/2014 at 1:14pm
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I'd say not.

Towing at over the car's maximum towing weight would be illegal, even if the combined weight came within the GCW or GTW of the towing vehicle.

The maximum towing weight is set by the car manufacturer and is what is used by the Police/VOSA when they do a roadside check.

Peter


PersonWibsey
26/8/2014 at 1:26pm
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I should have put, the guy is towing at the MRO, in that he puts nothing in the caravan to tow it, just puts clothes etc in the boot of the towing car.


Personlisterdiesel
26/8/2014 at 2:04pm
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I'd still say he's on dodgy ground, but wait and see what the others say.

I don't have the luxury of playing around with figures with our outfit as we come under truck rules which are much more strict and less open to interpretation.

Peter


PersonROG.
26/8/2014 at 3:01pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Wibsey on 26/8/2014
Hi can you lovely people help my Hubby with a conversation he had in the pub last night?

Is it legal to tow a caravan that has plated MTPLM that is greater than your cars maximum towing weight, even if the MRO is less than the cars maximum?



Its an internet myth that has been doing the rounds for a few years

There is no law or rule which states that plated MAM/MTPLM cannot be greater than the towing capacity set by the manufacturer

Anyone who says different is talking rubbish and if they still insist they are right then ask them to point out where the law is that states such or prove that any driver has ever been prosecuted for such ..... they will never be able to give either

Some pranny said that there is the potential to go over the towing capacity if the MAM is higher ..... so is the potential to do 150 mph in many cars !

-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


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PersonROG.
26/8/2014 at 3:16pm
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I would also point out that there is no law or rule which states that the combined plated GVW / MAM / MTPLM must not exceed the GTW

Towing capacity and GTW both refer to actual weights

GVW / MAM / MTPLM all refer to the maximum legal weight something can be and for licence purposes they all mean the same thing

-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


PersonWibsey
26/8/2014 at 3:43pm
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Thanks ROG. So as long as the actual weight doesn't exceed the cars towing Max and them combined doesn't go over the train limit, all is ok.


Personlisterdiesel
26/8/2014 at 3:54pm
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So I can exceed the 3500kg towing limit on my Discovery?

Don't think so.

Peter


PersonWibsey
26/8/2014 at 4:20pm
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No it's not about exceeding towing limits, this about not loading up to the maximum possible limit, so using MRO and then loading so you are within the cars limits.

Basically if you were stopped by the police, in law even if the caravan was within towing limits, would they still use the plated MTPLM or would they have to get your unit weighed to see its actual weight.


PersonROG.
26/8/2014 at 4:26pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Wibsey on 26/8/2014
No it's not about exceeding towing limits, this about not loading up to the maximum possible limit, so using MRO and then loading so you are within the cars limits.

Basically if you were stopped by the police, in law even if the caravan was within towing limits, would they still use the plated MTPLM or would they have to get your unit weighed to see its actual weight.

If they want to prosecute you firstly they must weight it

If they find the plated weight is overloaded then its a fine and make you offload the excess

If they find the towing capacity is exceeded then they will have to decide if it warrants a court case under reg 100 of the C&U for being unsafe because there is no specific charge in law for exceeding the towing capacity

Exceeding towing capacity may let insurers off the hook !



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


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PersonROG.
26/8/2014 at 4:28pm
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Quote: Originally posted by listerdiesel on 26/8/2014
So I can exceed the 3500kg towing limit on my Discovery?

Don't think so.

Peter




Nothing to legally atop you under the law if every thing else is within plated weights but you would need a trailer with more than over-run brakes !





-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


PersonROG.
26/8/2014 at 4:31pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Wibsey on 26/8/2014
Thanks ROG. So as long as the actual weight doesn't exceed the cars towing Max and them combined doesn't go over the train limit, all is ok.


This example would be 100% legal

Car
GVW 2000
Towing capacity 1800
GTW 3800

Trailer
MAM 3500

Load car to actual weight of 2000
Load trailer to actual weight of 1800

I have not taken into account any transfer weight from trailer to car in that example so as to keep it simple



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


Personjanus
26/8/2014 at 6:16pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Wibsey on 26/8/2014
Hi can you lovely people help my Hubby with a conversation he had in the pub last night?

Is it legal to tow a caravan that has plated MTPLM that is greater than your cars maximum towing weight, even if the MRO is less than the cars maximum?


Yes



-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


Personvwalan
26/8/2014 at 8:21pm
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Quote: Originally posted by listerdiesel on 26/8/2014
So I can exceed the 3500kg towing limit on my Discovery?

Don't think so.

Peter




yes you can . but you chose a drawbar trailer if it was a semi trailer you could have a heavier trailer as weight is imposed on the towing unit . then its all down to trainweight .


-------------
vwalan


PersonPhil Ness
28/8/2014 at 12:30am
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Quote: Originally posted by ROG. on 26/8/2014
Quote: Originally posted by listerdiesel on 26/8/2014So I can exceed the 3500kg towing limit on my Discovery?

Don't think so.

Peter




Nothing to legally atop you under the law if every thing else is within plated weights but you would need a trailer with more than over-run brakes !






No there is nothing legally defining exceeding the towing limit as being an offence, they would just go back to the rule book and find another way to skin the cat.


Personneil and lena
28/8/2014 at 8:36pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Wibsey on 26/8/2014
Hi can you lovely people help my Hubby with a conversation he had in the pub last night?

Is it legal to tow a caravan that has plated MTPLM that is greater than your cars maximum towing weight, even if the MRO is less than the cars maximum?




perhaps not illegal but do you really want the worry that those few extra items that you might carry may just put you over your cars limit ?
Sorry but I couldn't be bothered with worry and hassle so why not do the right thing and either purchase a caravan that has a MTPLM below your cars limit or change your car for something more suitable



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