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We are so confused and really need some advice as to whether our maths are correct. We have been recently driving ourselves insane on what type of tow car and looking at matches on towcar info. After a week or so of insanity we have settled on the Avensis estate (matches our budget and year requirements - 2010 or newer -  and non caravan needs). I would prefer a 2.2 as the kerby weight is slightly higher at just over 1600kg and has a tow limit of 1800kg but for the sake of a worst case scenario will look at the 2.0 here are some specs that I gleaned from the website:

Min Kerb Weight 1430
Max Load 590
Gives a GVW of 2020
Max train weight info is not supplied so lets say it's 3,400.

By my maths in theory we could tow a caravan with a MTPLM of 1,380, however if you take the 85% of Kerb weight rule it really should be MTPLM 1,215.

This is where it gets interesting and frustrating. The max braked tow limit stipulated by Toyota is 1600kg. So does this mean that I can tow a van up to 1600kg? my gut feel says no way.

So to me I would say that the Max train weight of this vehicle has to be calculated as follows:

Towing Limit 1600 + GVW 2020 = 3,620 (I passed my test pre 97)

Maybe I am just being a bit thick but can you see my confusion?

As this is our first caravan it may be quite academic as we would prefer to start off with something fairly simple and light and was reckoning max MTPLM of 1250kg. My wife is quite taken by the xplore 304 (i'm not so keen though) and I would guess that the vehicle would cope with a MTPLM up to say 1350 easily however I really wanted to check that my understanding and maths is correct as I would not want to be doing anything dangerous.

Any help / advice anyone can give may mean that I do not have to go and section myself.

Thanks

Quote: Originally posted by Wibsey on 26/8/2014It is a real pain, think I might go slightly mad sorting this out. we have been looking as we have an Audi A5 sportback, one problem we have been having is, different dealers are giving us different weights for the car??

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Thanks for the feedback and appreciate that this is all theory at this stage until I see the actual weight plates / V5. The weights quoted on the websites vary considerably even between the same model car. I have seen the 2.0 kerb weight stated between 1,420 and 1,530 and for the 2.2 from 1530 up to 1650 obviously this gives a different allowable MTPLM at 85% of kerb weight.

What I wanted to do was get an understanding of the maths behind it all and an idea of the likely max MTPLM erring on the safe side so that when we eventually buy a van (cynic mode on - we are not sold a van that is not safe to tow by some unscrupulous person cynic mode off).

For instance if I find out that the GTW of the Avenis is only 3,000kg with a GVW of 2,020 then we will be limited to a caravan with an MTPLM of 980kg and it will be back to the tow car drawing board

As regards BHP/Torque performance I think if I observe 85% of Kerb Weight + 2.50% maximum I should be OK with either model.

I think I am slowly beginning to understand.
Thanks

Quote: Originally posted by Nosaj

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For instance if I find out that the GTW of the Avenis is only 3,000kg with a GVW of 2,020 then we will be limited to a caravan with an MTPLM of 980kg

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Quote: Originally posted by ROG. on 26/8/2014

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Quote: Originally posted by Nosaj

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For instance if I find out that the GTW of the Avenis is only 3,000kg with a GVW of 2,020 then we will be limited to a caravan with an MTPLM of 980kg

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No problem having a MTPLM of say 1100 in that case as long as the actual weight does not go above 980

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Thats an interesting point but if I get pulled over by the police or if I was involved in an accident could they not technically nick me for being overweight and how would I prove otherwise

My cars GVW plated weight is 2020
Vans MIRO = 875kg and I have 50kg of stuff in it but MTPLM plated is 1,100

In the eyes of the police they would assume that the total weight of my outfit would be 3,120 even though it is actually 2,945 and if the GTW is 3,000 then they would assume I was 120kg overweight.

Apologies not querying the accuracy of what you are saying and this is still a learning curve for me but how would you prove that you were actually within the limits. I have never used a weighbridge before but they may provide some kind of print out but wouldn't you have to do that every time you venture out.

Quote: Originally posted by Big Roy on 26/8/2014

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ROG, I am impressed with your knowledge, and I thought it was only confined to the Trucknet forum

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Quote: Originally posted by ROG. on 26/8/2014

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See the thread under this one at the moment
http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=20&TopicID=317779&PagePosition=1

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Thanks Rog most helpful - so it would be up to them to prove that the plated weights were exceeded by weighing the vehicle. i.e. innocent until proven guilty (the cynic in me says that when dealing with Insurance companies the reverse is true)  

Obviously up to me to make sure that I am confident they have not been.

Thanks

Quote: Originally posted by Nosaj on 26/8/2014

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Quote: Originally posted by ROG. on 26/8/2014See the thread under this one at the moment

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http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=20&TopicID=317779&PagePosition=1

Thanks Rog most helpful - so it would be up to them to prove that the plated weights were exceeded by weighing the vehicle. i.e. innocent until proven guilty (the cynic in me says that when dealing with Insurance companies the reverse is true)  

Obviously up to me to make sure that I am confident they have not been.

 

Thanks
Yes, if you get a tug by VOSA they will weigh the van there and then and check the nose weight

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Quote: Originally posted by Big Roy on 26/8/2014

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While I'm on the subject of nose weight and just to complicate things even further, the caravan nose weight is transferred to your car which is counted as part of the cars payload

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Thanks Big Roy and apologies for the further question but just so I get it right in my head:

Does this mean that if a Caravan weighs 75kg at the nose then that 75kg should be deducted from the MTPLM figure of the van so if your Caravan van has a MTPLM of say 1500kg the max net weight would be 1425kg the difference between that 1425kg and the MIRO is the payload for the caravan. The payload for the car is whatever it is less the 75kg noseweight. 

So to get to a safe 85% towing limit I would need a car kerbweight of 1,676kg (1425/85%) or would I still need a kerbweight of 1,764kg (being 1,500/85%) assuming of course that all other specs are OK.

Thanks