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Subject Topic: Hill starts max tow Post Reply Post New Topic
Personnavver
22/12/2014 at 4:21pm
 Location: West country
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A friend has a very steep drive but has room for a folding camper. He is concerned about damaging the car, towing it up the drive. Would I be correct that this is a way of calculating it.

The max tow weights are I believe based on pulling away on a hill of 1:8 without causing damage to the car. that means the car has a mechanical advantage (MA) of 8:1 as it travels 8 units to lift the weight (car plus trailer) 1 unit. Assuming car max tow is 1300kg and car weight 1900kg loaded giving approx. combined weight 3200kg the pull will be 3200 divide by 8 equals 400kg.

So if the drive was 1:6 slope the MA will be 6 so with a pull of 400kg, combined weight may be 400 times 6 equals 2400kg. Deduct car weight of 1900kg gives a max tow of 500kg.

Does that sound reasonable.


Personkenles
22/12/2014 at 4:39pm
 Location: Gloucestershie
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So what is the break hores power of your tow car


PersonRogerGoff
22/12/2014 at 4:39pm
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You can't really do any maths on this, that is the basic calculation manufacturers use to arrive at max tow weight but obviously road surface & tyres come into it & also driving technique. What is important is that the clutch is not slipped unduly & this is down to driver, ie engine speed, clutch & handbrake control, auto box obviously makes it easier.

For best chance driveway needs to be dry & a solid surface, ie not gravel etc, & driver needs to pull out to a level surface in one go clearing clutch asap which might require an assistant to direct them to ensure a clear run out.


Personkate w
22/12/2014 at 5:19pm
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He could fit a winch at the top of the drive, I believe it's been done on here before.

-------------
Kate

Trailer tent, caravan and too many tents!


Personkazo2014
22/12/2014 at 5:50pm
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no maths equation takes into account the drivers ability to drive either


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PersonGrampian91
22/12/2014 at 6:00pm
 Location: Midlands
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Without knowing the exact torque at the rpm being used to pull the van up the drive its almost impossible to say.

A car with less power can pull a van up a slope easier than a more powerful one if the gearing it right.

Thats why a fairly low powered 4x4 seems to pull better than a more powerful large family car.

The 4x4 will be geared for 100mph max where the larger car maybe geared for 130mph+

It will be one of those situations where buying the wrong car may get expensive.


Personnavver
22/12/2014 at 11:41pm
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I'm trying to keep away from details such as torque and horse power as the maths really would get difficult.

Obviously the manufacturers max tow rating takes all that into account but for a 1300kg trailer on a 1 in 8 hill. We have a steeper hill but lighter trailer.

My theory was to calculate the pull for 1300kg on a 1 in 8 and convert that to (FC weight) on a 1 in 6. Assuming friction etc is the same.

Not sure of the actual gradient and he hasn't bought a camper yet.

A winch could be used but the road at the top is pretty busy and narrow. Fixing a winch may be difficult.

Hitching up will be tricky too as he won't be able to move the trailer at all on such a steep slope will need to reverse perfectly under the hitch head.

Of course, having the car unloaded will help greatly as well. The drive is tarmacked so a good surface. Car is a Peugeot Partner 92 BHP 1.6 diesel.

Let's face it, not many would want to hill start 1300kg van on a 1 in 8 but the manufacturers say it is OK.


PersonGrampian91
23/12/2014 at 1:09am
 Location: Midlands
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The maths wont work without the torque and gear ratio's.

I had a petrol Mondeo 145bhp. and a diesel Mondeo 130bhp. The diesel tows a lot better than the petrol.

Bags of torque and lower down than the petrol.

But my mates Vitara petrol has 134bhp and pulling away from a standstill on a hill it matches my diesel car because its gearing is lower.

But on the hills in higher gears it struggles.

How often are they going to be doing it though? Even if its weekly then the clutch and drivetrain will last IF used properly.
Minimum amount of revs required to get it moving and reduce the clutch slippage.

I know someone that can burn a fiesta clutch out in 7000 miles and thats not towing or reversing up a driveway.
Fairly flat driveway. But it bounces off the limited every morning reversing out..

Its painful to listem. Im surprised the neighbours have not taken offence to her.

1300kg for 92bhp would not be my idea of a suitable tow vehicle.


Personlisterdiesel
25/12/2014 at 3:45pm
 Location: Rushden Northants
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Most 4X4's have a low range in the transfer box, that makes towability completely dependent on tyre grip.

The Discovery V8 has 180 or so BHP, 250lb ft of torque at 2600rpm.

Normal input to output ratio of the box is 1.211:1
Low range ratio is 3.32:1

With that kind of reduction you can do some serious pulling or reversing, or do some serious damage if you're not careful.

I've pulled a fully load Ifor Williams trailer with a LWB Defender 200Tdi on the back out of a steep farmyard in Barnstaple in low range, it was just not possible in high range and the difference was really amazing.

Peter


Personfreeatlast
26/12/2014 at 11:29am
 Location: Teesside
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The obvious answer would be to fit a motor mover.


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PersonGrampian91
27/12/2014 at 4:06pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Mondeo Avondale Gram View Grampian91's Profile View Profile   Reply to Grampian91 Reply   Quote Grampian91 Quote  
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Quote: Originally posted by listerdiesel on 25/12/2014
Most 4X4's have a low range in the transfer box, that makes towability completely dependent on tyre grip.

The Discovery V8 has 180 or so BHP, 250lb ft of torque at 2600rpm.

Normal input to output ratio of the box is 1.211:1
Low range ratio is 3.32:1

With that kind of reduction you can do some serious pulling or reversing, or do some serious damage if you're not careful.

I've pulled a fully load Ifor Williams trailer with a LWB Defender 200Tdi on the back out of a steep farmyard in Barnstaple in low range, it was just not possible in high range and the difference was really amazing.

Peter



Yeah ive had a few RangeRovers and i remember the manual saying you can tow 8 tons in an emergency.



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