Home

   Log in or Register



Insurance Quotes
forums Campsite Search Comp Directory tips virtual brochure Profile
Tent and Awning Reviews Competitions Caravans and Motorhomes For Sale Shopping Diary Advent Calendar

Advertisement

Message Forums

Welcome Guest Register Login Search The Forum Posts Since Last Visit
 Reception - All Forums
   Caravans and Caravanning -  Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice
Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email  Printer Friendly Version Print
Subject Topic: C1+E Towing / Train Weights Post Reply Post New Topic
21/2/2015 at 7:25pm
 Location: Rushden Northants
 Outfit: Mercedes 614D Conversion
View listerdiesel's Profile View Profile   Reply to listerdiesel Reply   Quote listerdiesel Quote  
Joined: 03/7/2011

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   581

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I have asked this question of DVLA and got a very non-committal answer:

C1+E licence with 107 Code, so 8.25 tonnes max train weight.

I am being told elsewhere that as long as the ACTUAL weights are under the limit, a 6 tonne vehicle and a 3.5 tonne trailer would be legal to drive, but I don't agree.

To my mind, the PLATED weights are what matters, not what you are carrying. If I get stopped by the Police, the first thing they will check are the vehicle and trailer plates, which add up to 9.5 tonnes.

DVLA gave me this response:

"Thank you for your email received on 18/2/15. Your email reference number is XXXXXXX.

DVLA can only advise you on which categories your licence entitles you to drive. We can also advise on what terms and restrictions these categories are to be driven under in accordance to your individual licence.

Maximum weights are prescribed in The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 and are not a driving licence concern. All enquiries concerning maximum weights should be referred to the Transport Technology and Standards. You can reach them on:

Transport; Technology & Standards,
Dept for Transport
Zone 2/01
Great Minster House
33 Horseferry Road
London
SW1P 4DR

Email: ivs.enquiries at dft.gsi.gov.uk

I hope this has been helpful."

What do others think?

Peter


21/2/2015 at 7:44pm
 Location: LEICESTER
 Outfit: None Entered
View ROG.'s Profile View Profile   Reply to ROG. Reply   Quote ROG. Quote  
Joined: 19/1/2012

Gold Member
Gold Member

Forum Posts:   392

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

The law on this is clear so why DVLA do not consult their own PDFS such as INS57P I do not know !!
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208103/ins57p.pdf

The 8250kg is the max combined plated weight total

vehicle GVW + trailer MAM
7500+750
6000+2250
5000+3250

as simple examples

DVLA know that licence laws are based on GVW/MAM/MTPLM weights and not actual weights with the exceptions being the D categories which are based on number of seats

Post last edited on 21/02/2015 19:55:26

-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


21/2/2015 at 8:57pm
 Location: North Essex
 Outfit: Caravelair Alba 400
View billy's Profile View Profile   Reply to billy Reply   Quote billy Quote  
Joined: 19/4/2002

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4364

Site Reviews Total: 39
Site Reviews 2024: 9  
Site Reviews 2023: 6  
Site Reviews 2022: 7  
Site Reviews 2021: 10 
Site Reviews 2020: 7  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 121
Site Nights 2023: 45
Site Nights 2022: 91
Site Nights 2021: 112
Site Nights 2020: 84
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

This is just 2 separate government entities not working together. DVLA is right enough, they deal only with licence law so do not concern themselves with C&U law.

Yes it is correct that provided actual weights do not exceed max allowed gross train weight of towing vehicle then it is legal to drive as far as C&U law is concerned even if plated weight of trailer is higher...provided your licence will cover it.

If added together, plated weights are higher than your licence allows then you cannot drive it.

It is for driver to be conversant with both licence law & C&U law to ensure he is legal. Information provided separately from DVLA & T,T&S needs to be used together.



25/2/2015 at 5:52pm
 Location: Rushden Northants
 Outfit: Mercedes 614D Conversion
View listerdiesel's Profile View Profile   Reply to listerdiesel Reply   Quote listerdiesel Quote  
Joined: 03/7/2011

Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Forum Posts:   581

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I pursued DVLA over this, and had the following response this afternoon:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The definition of category C1E with the 107 restriction code is as follows:

Category C1E – Vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg (combined weight not more than 8250kg), and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver.

I can confirm that the weights given above are based on the maximum authorised mass of the vehicle and trailer.

The terms `maximum authorised mass' (MAM), `gross weight'; and `permissible maximum weight' all have the same meaning; i.e. the weight of the vehicle, plus the maximum load the vehicle may safely carry.

If a vehicle is unlikely to be used at its potential maximum weight most vehicles may be downplated; i.e. the vehicles springs or other components can be changed; so that only a lighter load can be carried. The Agency's plate on the vehicle may be changed to correspond with this.

The MAM or gross weight of the vehicle is the deciding factor in determining what driving entitlement is required.

Although the combined weight may be within the train weight of the vehicle this has no bearing on the driving entitlement required.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peter


25/2/2015 at 8:36pm
 Location: LEICESTER
 Outfit: None Entered
View ROG.'s Profile View Profile   Reply to ROG. Reply   Quote ROG. Quote  
Joined: 19/1/2012

Gold Member
Gold Member

Forum Posts:   392

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by listerdiesel on 25/2/2015I pursued DVLA over this, and had the following response this afternoon:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The definition of category C1E with the 107 restriction code is as follows:

Category C1E – Vehicles between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer over 750kg (combined weight not more than 8250kg), and designed and constructed for the carriage of no more than eight passengers in addition to the driver.

I can confirm that the weights given above are based on the maximum authorised mass of the vehicle and trailer.

The terms `maximum authorised mass' (MAM), `gross weight'; and `permissible maximum weight' all have the same meaning; i.e. the weight of the vehicle, plus the maximum load the vehicle may safely carry.

If a vehicle is unlikely to be used at its potential maximum weight most vehicles may be downplated; i.e. the vehicles springs or other components can be changed; so that only a lighter load can be carried. The Agency's plate on the vehicle may be changed to correspond with this.

The MAM or gross weight of the vehicle is the deciding factor in determining what driving entitlement is required.

Although the combined weight may be within the train weight of the vehicle this has no bearing on the driving entitlement required.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peter




Not the best explanation of the 107 code



-------------
EX Advanced driving observer (IAM)
EX LGV & B+E instructor


Advertisement

Handiworld


25/2/2015 at 9:29pm
 Location: North Essex
 Outfit: Caravelair Alba 400
View billy's Profile View Profile   Reply to billy Reply   Quote billy Quote  
Joined: 19/4/2002

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4364

Site Reviews Total: 39
Site Reviews 2024: 9  
Site Reviews 2023: 6  
Site Reviews 2022: 7  
Site Reviews 2021: 10 
Site Reviews 2020: 7  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 121
Site Nights 2023: 45
Site Nights 2022: 91
Site Nights 2021: 112
Site Nights 2020: 84
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

This bit seems reasonably clear. It does point out licence law refers to MAM & not actual on road weight of vehicle & trailer.


"The MAM or gross weight of the vehicle is the deciding factor in determining what driving entitlement is required.

Although the combined weight may be within the train weight of the vehicle this has no bearing on the driving entitlement required".







In order to post a reply you will need to register, or if already registered please log in here

Prev       Next
Quick Links - All Forums - Caravan Towcars and Towing Advice - Top of Page

Printer Friendly Version Printable version      Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email


Latest News, Discounts and Competitions  see all...














3934 Visitors online !

Free UKCampsite.co.uk Window Sticker  -  Recommend to Friend  -  Add a Missing Campsite

[Message Forums]  [Caravan Sites & Camping]  [Company Listings]  [Features / Advice]  [Virtual Brochure]  [Shop!]
[Reception]  [Competitions]  [Caravans & Motorhomes For Sale]  [Event Diary]  [Contact Us]  [Tent Reviews



Please note we are not responsible for the content of external sites & any reviews represent the author's personal view only. Please report any error here. You may view our privacy and cookie policy and terms and conditions here. All copyrights & other intellectual property rights in the design and content of this web site are reserved to the UKCampsite.co.uk © 1999 - 2024


Advertisement


Advertisement


UKCampsite.co.uk
2024 Advent Calendar


Advent Calendar

24 Daily Prizes PLUS a Christmas Day Star Prize worth £999

Request a Reminder