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Subject Topic: Towing with Ford SMAX
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28/8/2015 at 3:25pm
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Hi,

I am looking to buy a 5 berth caravan and having read a lot on forums etc I wanted to check my understanding of the towing rules. My car has a Max permissable mass of 2340 kg, kerb weight of 1605kg, abd a maxiumum towable mass of 1100kg, and Max train weight of 3440kg.

I think the nose weight of 70kg can be included in the car weight so I can pull a caravan with a MTPLM of 1170.

Is this correct?



28/8/2015 at 3:34pm
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As i work it out > kerbweight of 1605kg at 85% = 1364kg

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28/8/2015 at 3:37pm
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No.
The figure stated by Ford as the Max Towable Mass is exactly what they state, 1100kg.
The nose weight is a separate entity and is just the weight that is to be "balanced" on the towhook and is part of that 1100kg.

Stevo,
Does matter what the guideline 85% figure is. The max weight that can be towed is the figure Ford state, which in this case appears to be 1100kg.


28/8/2015 at 4:03pm
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You are correct, the max tow load is the axle weight of the trailer, so that a caravan weighing 1170kg with a nose weight of 70kg will mean that the axle weight of the caravan is 1100 and within the limit.

-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


28/8/2015 at 4:07pm
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Thanks, if I had a caravan with a MTPLM of 1300kg but only loaded it to 1150kg is that still legal?



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28/8/2015 at 4:49pm
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You would not get any load at all in the caravan, it would be empty. But yes, provided caravan does not exceed max tow weight of car then it is legal even if mtplm is in excess of max tow weight.

Ford S Max normally has much higher max tow than 1100kg though. What engine does yours have, is it a petrol? The reason makers put restricted tow weight on models with low powered petrol engines is because they are only capable of towing that weight.



28/8/2015 at 5:01pm
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Thanks, yes it's a 2.0L petrol. We are planning to book onto a site where we leave it there all season so we could tow it empty(ish). I can't find any 5 berth vans that have a MTPLM of 1150, maybe a couple of older ones, so it looks like towing it empty is our only option unless we change the car.


28/8/2015 at 5:33pm
 Location: Llanidloes Powys
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Quote: Originally posted by janus on 28/8/2015
You are correct, the max tow load is the axle weight of the trailer, so that a caravan weighing 1170kg with a nose weight of 70kg will mean that the axle weight of the caravan is 1100 and within the limit.



There was a very long thread about this recently and this was proved as incorrect.
If stopped and weighed by the Police or VDSA they will weigh the trailer not connected to the towing vehicle with the wheels and hitch wheel/support on the weigh bridge. If that comes over the limit you're nicked!
This has also been confirmed by acquaintances who are Govt Vehicle Inspectors.



28/8/2015 at 5:36pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Rainagain on 28/8/2015
Thanks, yes it's a 2.0L petrol. We are planning to book onto a site where we leave it there all season so we could tow it empty(ish). I can't find any 5 berth vans that have a MTPLM of 1150, maybe a couple of older ones, so it looks like towing it empty is our only option unless we change the car.



http://www.whattowcar.com/review.php?typeauto=13&merk_x=Ford&serie=S-Max



28/8/2015 at 6:24pm
 Location: Rochdale
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Quote: Originally posted by LlaniDavis on 28/8/2015
Quote: Originally posted by janus on 28/8/2015You are correct, the max tow load is the axle weight of the trailer, so that a caravan weighing 1170kg with a nose weight of 70kg will mean that the axle weight of the caravan is 1100 and within the limit.



There was a very long thread about this recently and this was proved as incorrect.
If stopped and weighed by the Police or VDSA they will weigh the trailer not connected to the towing vehicle with the wheels and hitch wheel/support on the weigh bridge. If that comes over the limit you're nicked!
This has also been confirmed by acquaintances who are Govt Vehicle Inspectors.





If you are stopped the unit is weighed as one vehicle, each axle weight is compared to its max, the sum of the cars axle weights is checked against the cars weight plate and the sum of all the axle weights is checked against the max train weight. If all those things are correct then you are on your way. The people checking have no reference to the manufacturers tow load limit, it is not a prosecutable offence to exceed that limit and if you can find me the law which states otherwise I will shake your hand. I gave spent years looking for it. However, if an accident has occurrred resulting in injury, or if the vehicle is stopped for an unconnected reason and the tow load has a bearing on that reason then a construction and use act section 100 prosecution can be launched.
Whoever told you that if stopped your caravan would be weighed as a separate item is to put it simply wrong.



-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


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28/8/2015 at 7:20pm
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Yes it does seem logical that enforcement would simply weigh axles, I can't really see them faffing about detaching caravan. I would guess that very few caravanners have been weighed anyway. There seems no clear info on where these checks take place, are they carried out at times like bank hol weekends when caravans are about or are they just weekday checks mainly aimed at catching builders trucks/trailers overweight with caravans checked if they happen to be passing?

Only problem with towing over tow weight but within axle limit may come from insurance assessor after bad crash in which case insured would be covered for 3rd party damage but insuerer may refuse to pay out for insured's damage.


28/8/2015 at 9:27pm
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I shall have to tell my friends who are Vehicle Inspectors with VDSA that they are doing their job incorrectly!


28/8/2015 at 10:04pm
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Can you ask them about the nature of caravan weight checks and where they are carried out, ie motorway services at bank hols or what? I'm familiar with hgv weight checks which will stop anything from 44tonners to overloaded builders Transits but do these checks also stop caravans at random? It would be handy to know the actual nature of these caravan weight checks.


28/8/2015 at 10:37pm
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The guys I know work in Wales and the West of England.
I know that they have stopped caravans at the VDSA Unit at Ross on Wye, just after the end of the M50. That can be at any time the Office is open.
They have stopped units at a lay-by on the Welshpool By-pass, often on Mart Days when they are also stopping farm trailers.
They have stopped units at various places along the A55 in North Wales. That seems to be done quite often in the summer.
They have stopped units at Exeter Services at the end of the M5, and at other services on the M5. These seem to be always in the summer.
I also know of some stops that have been done after race and rally meetings in various places.
Stops can be totally random, but they also get units escorted in by the Police. Often it seems to be just "something doesn't look right".
In general they will just use an axle weight check, but if that is close to the limit they can and do unhitch.


28/8/2015 at 11:28pm
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Quote: Originally posted by LlaniDavis on 28/8/2015
I shall have to tell my friends who are Vehicle Inspectors with VDSA that they are doing their job incorrectly!



That might seem to be a good idea.


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci


28/8/2015 at 11:34pm
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Quote: Originally posted by Billy x on 28/8/2015
Yes it does seem logical that enforcement would simply weigh axles, I can't really see them faffing about detaching caravan. I would guess that very few caravanners have been weighed anyway. There seems no clear info on where these checks take place, are they carried out at times like bank hol weekends when caravans are about or are they just weekday checks mainly aimed at catching builders trucks/trailers overweight with caravans checked if they happen to be passing?

Only problem with towing over tow weight but within axle limit may come from insurance assessor after bad crash in which case insured would be covered for 3rd party damage but insuerer may refuse to pay out for insured's damage.



Insurance assessor a would need to have been at the scene and to have a measure of what the actual weights of the vehicle s were to do that. After the event all they can ask is were the vehicles within plated weights and if they have no evidence that this was not the case then that is the end of the story. You talk of towing over tow weight, but what was described earlier is towing at maximum tow load and is not over weight in any way.


-------------
Bill

For a licence dated 1997 or later you must add together the plated max weight of the caravan and trailer, if the total is 3500 or less you can tow it. You may even tow a caravan with a MAM greater than the cars unladen mass the restriction was removed in 2013

Mondeo Titanium 140 tdci



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