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Subject Topic: Towable Weights?
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03/4/2017 at 11:44pm
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Hi Ladies and Gents :)

I am looking into getting into towing and family holidays, but after numerous searches on here and further afield, I am no further ahead of working out what MAM's, kerb weight, towing weights etc etc I can actually do.

So here is a quick summary, I am post Jan 1997 so I am limited to 3500kg MAM.

I have a Ford Focus Titanium 1.6 Auto, with a braked towing weight of 1000kg. I was looking at a starter caravan and looked at a Coachman Mirage 500-5. Online details of that caravan show it as this:

Mass in Running Order weight: 965kgs
Maximum allowable weight is: 1300kgs

Can someone please shed some light on weight limits for me and if it falls within my 3,500kg limit or do I just bite the bullet and go for my B+E anyway.

I have no idea when it comes to working all this out, it is massively confusing, it just looks like a mass of weights to me.

Regards
Bob


03/4/2017 at 11:56pm
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You need to know what the vehicle's kerbweight is first then you can calculate a percentage match of that figure with the Maximum allowable weight of 1300 kgs. which is officially called the MTPLM.
Is the Focus petrol or diesel?


04/4/2017 at 7:26am
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If it has braked towing weight of 1000kg them you have to get a smaller caravan of max allowable weight or mtplm of 1000kg or less. If you want to safely tow a 1300kg mtplm caravan then you need another towcar that will probably require a B+E licence to tow it. It is possible you may find a car to tow a 1300kg caravan & be just within B licence ie under 3.5t.

Look at the max tow weight of whatever car you are looking at. The mtplm of caravan needs to be less than that.

Look at max allowed or max gross weight of car & mtplm of caravan. Those figures need to add up to less than 3.5tonnes to tow on a B licence.

To match car to caravan mtplm of caravan needs to be around 85% of kerbweight of car. This is not law it is a suggestion for safe towing. The car you have towing a 1000kg caravan is within the 85% figure.

Max tow weight of car is arrived at by it's ability to tow a load. ie it is a technical figure not a safe tow weight figure. Cars with powerful engines may have max tow figure well above their kerb weight but this does not say it is safe to tow a large caravan of that weight.

Post last edited on 04/04/2017 07:32:13


04/4/2017 at 12:12pm
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ok i'm thick what is the meaning of MTPLM, you are talking to a newbie here.

My Gross weight of car is 1825, Gross Train Weight 2825.

Sorry to be abit ignorant about this, but needed explaining abit easier that's all.

I read MAM and all with DVLA and it just confuses me more, I think it buckles every ones mind to be honest.

I am trying to figure this out correct me if I am wrong:

My car's unbraked weight is 1000kgs
The caravan I seen is 965kg
BUT
Maximum caravan allowable weight is 1300kg.

If I drove with it unloaded am I ok or do I still get frowned upon based on the fact it's maximum weight is 1300kgs. If I don't get this, then a bigger car and B+E may just be easier haha, more money but easier.


04/4/2017 at 12:31pm
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Mtplm = maximum technically permitted laden mass is the caravan term for MAM or maximum allowed loaded weight of caravan. It would be just legal to tow the empty caravan with your car but not loaded with a normal compliment of caravan gear. The tow weight of your car is 1000kg & must not be exceeded. It would not be feasible to completely load your car with holiday gear & tow an empty caravan.

Gross weight is just another term for MaM = maximum allowed mass. It means the maximum legal weight of car & load. Gross train weight is MaM of car & caravan together.

You need to understand weights & the dynamics of towing before you can safely tow a caravan. You can ask questions on this forum & you can search online. The info you need is easily available.


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04/4/2017 at 12:31pm
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I think I may have it now.

So with the weight of my car and trailer fully loaded, the car only allows me to carry a maximum of 2825kg bewteen the car and trailer.

So if the car weighs 1825, I am assuming that I am only allowed to tow a caravan with a max loaded weight of 1000kgs, so a smaller caravan for example with a unloded weight of say 800kgs, and then loaded 1000kgs would be ok for me to tow with my car plus be under my 3500kg


04/4/2017 at 12:34pm
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That's correct. You have got it.


04/4/2017 at 1:19pm
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Thank you for clarification, it is only Tuesday so still working off the weekend :)


04/4/2017 at 11:01pm
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Abbreviations mixed up. It's MPTLM, Maximum Permitted Total Laden Mass, from memory. I believe the number is the same as the MAM, Maximum Authorised Mass.

The government says:

"If you passed your car driving test on or after 1 January 1997 you can: drive a car or van up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass ( MAM ) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM;or tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg."

I wouldn't go the route of considering a caravan that has a MAM higher than your maximum towing weight (and which would if loaded to it put you over your gross train weight allowance). If you were checked, then I think the police would look at the gross weights (which would be too high) or weigh your car and caravan.

Just because the brochure says MIRO of 965Kg doesn't mean that's what it will weigh. Unless you weigh it you will not know. And MIRO probably doesn't allow for a gas bottle, mover, battery, or even a spare wheel if that is an extra.

Best to work on the MAM of both car and caravan; ensure the total is 3500Kg or lower (assuming you don't want a caravan of no more than 750Kg MAM), that it also falls within the train weight, and that the MAM of the caravan is no more than the braked towing allowance.

If you are looking at cars, don't assume the train weight is always the sum of the MAM + towing allowance as it is with your Focus. There are cars for which using the full towing allowance will put you over the train weight if the car is fully loaded.

A lot of caravan payload allowances are really low as you will find if you start weighing your contents. That is especially the case with lighter caravans for which the manufacturer is minimising the MAM anyway.    


08/4/2017 at 5:58pm
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The GTW (train weight) is shown quite clearly on the VIN plate, so there's no need to assume anything.

The thing not to assume is that a V5 will show the same towing capacity as the VIN plate. For example, the V5 of our Mondeo showed a max towing capacity of 1800. The VIN plate showed gross weight 2190, gross train weight 3750, so technically if the car was fully loaded, that would have given a towing capacity of 1560. If we'd loaded the car to it's max of 2190, and the caravan to the 1800 as shown on the V5, we'd have had a GTW of 3990, 240kg over the train weight and very illegal, not to mention unsafe.


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08/4/2017 at 6:22pm
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The V5C is correct though. Legally the car can tow 1800kg. You just cannot load the car to the max and still tow 1800kg.

Thats why you need to check all weights not just one. And dont forget you have axle weights also. Its possible to overload the car and be below the gross laden and train weights.

Same way some think the 85% figure is legal, where there are plenty of cars that cannot tow 85% of their unladen kerbweight.


08/4/2017 at 6:43pm
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Is unbraked weight the max trailer weight it can take or can it take more.


08/4/2017 at 7:30pm
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Quote: Originally posted by boblakelly on 08/4/2017
Is unbraked weight the max trailer weight it can take or can it take more.



It will never be higher, and is usually lower. The max unbraked trailer weight you can tow with anything AFAIK is 750Kg or half the kerbweight of the towing vehicle, whichever is lower.


08/4/2017 at 7:34pm
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Max unbraked tow weight refers only to small trailer without braked wheels. Max unbraked weight is gross weight of trailer including load. It will always be 750kg or less. This is of no interest to you if you intend to pull a caravan that has braked wheels.


08/4/2017 at 8:25pm
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Yea sorry that was meant to be braked not unbraked, my bad. So my car says on V5 brakes is 1000kg


08/4/2017 at 9:10pm
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The caravan should have a gross laden of 1000kg. Beware sellers than state the MIRO or unladen weights.

The 1.6 autobox is not one of the strongest around. Later ones were limted to 800kg max tow.

The 965kg (1300kg) coachman is likely to exceed 1000kg before you even start to add any essentials.




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