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Subject Topic: CITROEN GRAND C4 PICASSO 2.0 Post Reply Post New Topic
Persontazhearts
18/4/2018 at 10:02pm
 Location: Midlothian
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Hello,

We are looking for a new (to us) tow car to tow our 2005 Lunar Quasar 615 (MTPLM = 1450).

We have found a 2015 CITROEN GRAND C4 PICASSO DIESEL E: 2.0 BlueHDi Exclusive+ that we love.

According to the data I can find online it's Maximum Tow Limit is 1700kg (so far so good).

It's kerb weight is 1505kg (higher than 85% but I am an experienced tower).

When I ran a tow car match search it cam back that the car was not suitable as the gross train weight of the car is too high (103.6%).

How can this be when the Maximum Tow limit is 1700kg.

It doesn't make sense to me. Is there anything else I can do? Does anyone have this tow car? Are the figures I have quoted (from the internet) accurate.

Thanks in advance.


PersonRob and Tina
18/4/2018 at 10:23pm
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If the car is loaded to the max then the towing weight has to be reduced to keep within the gross train weight. We had a 1.6 hdi version and the towing weights were very confusing to understand, if there are just two of you and the car is lightly loaded you will probably be ok but you need to check your weights carefully especially as it would be a 96% match. Check the weight plate on the car and it should make things clearer.

I'm not sure if the 2015 model has the self levelling suspension, if it does make sure the warranty covers this as earlier models had a bit of trouble with the rear suspension and it was quite an expensive repair.


Rob


PersonDarrenElbrow
19/4/2018 at 10:59am
 Location: Poole Dorset
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Check the weights on your V5 and on the weight plate on the car. There are so many variables with modern cars on the internet. Also you’ll need to check if the car is type approved to tow. Not all variants get tested. A lot of modern mid size cars actually have quite low towing capacity once you start checking . Also I think the weights quoted could be wrong. The max towing weight being higher than the car weight sounds very dangerous


PersonDecto
19/4/2018 at 11:28am
 Location: Cheshire
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My understanding is that the maximum tow weight quoted by the car manufacturer is the maximum weight of a trailer that can be attached to a fully loaded vehicle and still set off on a 12% gradient. This may not be a comfortable set off, i.e. require a fair amount of clutch slip.

So max tow weight has little to do with safety of the match, it's more related to to power and gearing of the tow vehicle.


Personnavver
19/4/2018 at 8:05pm
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People carriers can carry a lot of people so if lightly loaded will pull away on a hill OK but if fully loaded will not with the same caravan behind.

To get over this they quote a max towing weight but stipulate that it must be within the gross train weight.

That gives you some freedom which to me sounds like a common sense way of dealing with it.


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Persontazhearts
20/4/2018 at 11:15pm
 Location: Midlothian
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Ok so the dealer has sent me a pic of the VIN:

Kerb weight (excluding driver) = 1430kg

Gross vehicle weight = 2250kg
Max Train Weight = 3650kg

So If the car was at its gross weight of 2250kg I could legally tow 1400kg. 50kg less than my MTPLM.

If my caravan was fully loaded (1450kg) my car and contents can weigh up to 2200kg?

2200kg - 1430kg (kerb weight) would leave me with 770kg remaining for the driver, passengers and luggage.

I think this is just doable?

I normally pack my awning, poles, awning carpet etc. in the boot and leave the van pretty light (just clothes etc). Passengers normally include me, the wife (petite) and three kids 6, 9 and 11.

The nose weight for the Picasso is apparently only 70kg so might have to move the caravan front locker items (GAS bottle etc. Into the van) to achieve the nose weight.

Leaving aside the legality of I went slightly above the train wait and or nose weight would it be a big deal? I don't go that far (normally withing 30 miles) / many trips in my van in a year.


PersonDecto
20/4/2018 at 11:38pm
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Hi,

DVLA says as long as you don't exceed the individual Gross Vehicle Weight of your car, your Caravan or the Gross Train weight (combination) then you are OK. I've seen different opinions expressed, but this is from the government web page. Technically it seems you can exceed the Max Tow Weight as long as you don't overload the trailer and the car is not fully loaded by at least the amount you add to trailer.

I'd be a little cautious through, towing a large 7-8m long flat sided caravan is very different than a mini digger of equivalent weight on a short trailer due to the way the combination reacts when exposed to air movement. e.g. A coach passing at 70Mph +. These are the worst as air has nowhere to go, Other HGV's are often quite open and moving slower so less air pressure build up.

Placing a lot of weight in the car boot has a similar effect to overloading the nose weight on the Caravan as this weight compresses the rear suspension and unbalances the vehicle.

7.3 GCW - Gross Combination Weight
This is specified by the manufacturer of the towing vehicle and it means the maximum permitted weight of the combination (ie total of the towing vehicle and the trailer, including the loads on both). Also known as Gross Train Weight (GTW). To help find the maximum weight of trailer that can be towed, you could subtract the GVW of the towing vehicle from the GCW. (in this example a 2000kg trailer would be permitted). However if the towing vehicle is not fully laden, any spare weight capacity can be used by the trailer, so long as the GCW and trailer GVW are not exceeded.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/towing-a-trailer-with-a-car-or-van/towi........


PersonDarrenElbrow
21/4/2018 at 3:29pm
 Location: Poole Dorset
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I don’t get why anyone would want to tow something so heavy that it maxs out the capacity of the car, especially with children in the car. Surely the 85% guideline is made for good reason. I’d hate to hear that you’ve had an accident on your short 30 mile local trips.


Personthe black fox
22/4/2018 at 9:52am
 Location: flint north wales
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I looked at these when recently car searching and every variation came out as technically legal but also a bad match ,personally I would leave well alone there’s far better vehicles out there to do the job ,and also having had two Picasso’s in the past that have both had to be sold spares or repairs due to excessive repair costs I would say forget it


PersonMike3003
22/4/2018 at 10:46am
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May I respectfully suggest you heed the advice of Darren and the Fox above, both agreeable in my very humble opinion.

There are far better cars out there for both towing and solo use, I would not even short list your choice.

Sorry, but you did ask. 😀😀👍

-------------
Not ALL Newts get p**sed.

“Semper Fidelis”


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Persontazhearts
22/4/2018 at 12:17pm
 Location: Midlothian
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Thanks. I would be greatful for any suggestions however my criteria is pretty tight!

- £13,000 max.

- preferably 7 seater or possibly an estate (must have a large boot).

- Three proper seats in the back. (I have three kids, two are still in car seats which doesn't leave much space in a lot of cars for the third passenger.

- manual gearbox.

- preferably Euro 5 or Euro 6 for the road tax.

- Decent 40+ mpg

- no older than 2003 / 2004 and/or no more than 50,000 miles. Preferably no more than 30,000 miles.

- able to tow my caravan!

The other car I am looking at is a Vauxhall Zafira 2005, 170bhp 2.0 litre diesel. They are coming in at £10,000 ish with 30,000 miles on the clock. Still not the heaviest for towing my van but a bit heavier than the Grand Piccaso.


Personmarramc48
22/4/2018 at 9:30pm
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Quote: Originally posted by tazhearts on 22/4/2018
Thanks. I would be greatful for any suggestions however my criteria is pretty tight!

- £13,000 max.

- preferably 7 seater or possibly an estate (must have a large boot).

The other car I am looking at is a Vauxhall Zafira 2005, 170bhp 2.0 litre diesel. They are coming in at £10,000 ish with 30,000 miles on the clock. Still not the heaviest for towing my van but a bit heavier than the Grand Piccaso.



Do you not mean 2015, as £10k seems a bit excessive for a 2005 model?

-------------
mm48j


Personphathamster
23/4/2018 at 7:25am
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Ford galaxy probably the best of a bad bunch...

That's if you must have a 7seater.

If not something like a CRV or santa Fe makes sense



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