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Subject Topic: Need advice on BHP for petrol car
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05/6/2018 at 4:04pm
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Hello Forum,

I'm looking for a decentish petrol car, for about £10,000 that's capable of occasionally pulling a 4 berth caravan.

Diesel would be a more obvious choice but we've been put off by the problems with DPF filters two of our friends have had (they both spent a lot of money replacing clogged ones then got rid of their diesels), and the significant negative press lately.

For petrol we were looking at 2.0 Honda CRV's which have about 150bhp. I guess this would be fine but this is really stretching our budget for the age of car we want.

Below that there are a lot of things like Qashqais and Mokka's I quite like that have BHPs of about 110 - 115. These would be newer with less mileage.

Would these be able to pull a caravan? I am getting really lost trying to understand kerb weights and things.

Thank you for your help. I am totally new to this subject.



05/6/2018 at 4:21pm
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It all depends on how heavy your caravan is. What you really want is torque at low engine revs so perhaps worth looking at turbo petrol cars but you need to check the caravan MTPLM before you spend any money on a car.

Rob


05/6/2018 at 9:23pm
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Try the www.whattowcar.com type of outfit matching service, that should give you a decent idea of the outfit you intend to use.

Its not just about BHP, gear ratios, maximum permitted noseweight, and curbweight are other factors to consider.

My previous outfit was a 2009 1.8 petrol Honda Civic with a Lunar Zenith 4. Ok on the flat and in calm weather, but disliked any kind of headwind or long motorway inclines, and could be a pig at stalling when starting of on a gradient such as some sets of traffic lights we used to come across en route.

Given that the older petrol CRVs were much heavier than the Civic, hence more bodyweight to carry to start with, you may find that the performance with anything other than a very lightweight caravan a bit of a disapointment.
Our CRV is now 4yrs old and we are very pleased with it, certainly no problems with the filters, and tows very well indeed. Its a 2.2 Dtec diesel btw. Some of the older Honda Civics were also available with the 2.2 diesel engine when we first bought our petrol model, which we later regretted we did not buy at the time.

Julia



Post last edited on 05/06/2018 21:30:06

-------------
Just love to be out amoungst Nature and Wildlife

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06/6/2018 at 8:32am
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All diesels now have a DPF, but its some owners who don't know how to run them, they need a long run of at least 20 miles once a week to keep the filters clean, what the garage would have done with your friends vehicles, is take them out for a hard drive to clear the filter, then allegedly charged them for a replacement, filters can also be cleaned out now.
So don't be scared of buying one, if the DPF light comes on, go for a run in second or third gear for around 10 to 15 mins, or until the light goes out, once out the filter will be clean,,


06/6/2018 at 3:36pm
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Dealers can make the dpf regenerate,our Saab suffered a blocked egr valve which caused the fault light as it could not regenerate.
They replaced the egr as it was kaputt and made it regenerate, I give it a good run regularly using 5th or 4th gear to keep revs up!
Do adblue equipped diesels have a dpf too?

-------------
DS-There's more to life than football!!!


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06/6/2018 at 3:43pm
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Get an automatic petrol car. That will help to some degree.

Being a bit general a 200bhp petrol car may not tow as well as a 130bhp diesel car.

Probably exceptions to that, but just an idea of how well a diesel tows compared to a petrol model of the same car.

The issue with clogged DPF's is thay owners do nothing to prevent the issue. They often wont do anything until the warning lights come to say its clogged.

A diesel is an awful idea for my journey types but my next car will have one, and it will either get a good blast to regen on a regular basis or i will force it to regen on a regular basis.

Not wait for it to clog and then cross my fingers its possible to clean.



06/6/2018 at 7:14pm
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Glad I've got an old diesel car! No DPF to clog, and lower road tax as it's pre-2001. I'll just duck now all the bricks about to be thrown by enviromentalists.

-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


06/6/2018 at 7:17pm
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No DPF
But bloody high tax




-------------
Cheers
Ray

Discovery 4 & Bailey Barcelona 4







06/6/2018 at 8:00pm
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DPFs can only be cleaned and regenerated so many times. They are a consumable item and will eventually need changing as they clog with ash.

If buying used you have no idea how the vehicle has been driven and if there are DPF problems waiting to happen.

£500 to £3,000 depending on the vehicle.

Turbo petrol may give better torque for lower bhp. Ford, Vauxhall, VW all do smaller cc engines with turbos to boost bhp and torque.

However VW and Ford units have a checkered history for reliability so you need to choose carefully.


06/6/2018 at 8:03pm
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I was thinking of changing my old Volvo, but the more I read about more recent cars, the better my Volvo seems. 18 years old, 168,000 miles on the clock, still runs well, and went through the MOT last week without even any advisories. Maybe I'll just keep it until it will no longer pull my caravan.

-------------
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Colin


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06/6/2018 at 9:01pm
 Location: Cheshire
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This article is a couple of years old but has a few suggestions from Practical Caravan.

Petrol Towcars

Other than a 2.0 Mazda, any petrol would need a turbo for me.

Diesel engines produce most of their torque at low RPM so you can have full power available low in the rev range.

Standard (Normally Aspirated) petrol engines have a much lower and nearly linear torque so full power is only available near the top of the rev range.

Petrol turbo is a reasonable compromise, More torque is produced low down in the rev range, not as much as a diesel of the same capacity but often near double that of a NA standard engine so these generally drive OK when towing but obviously use more fuel for three reasons. 1) Diesel contains 18% more carbon per litre therefore has more energy per litre. 2)Petrol car needs more RPM 3) Petrol needs a specific air fuel ratio which tends to be more wasteful than diesel as a minimum has to be injected at low power requirements, e.g. cruising.

All diesel cars now have DPF's, EGR's and may have SCR systems. These are all maintenance parts that require spending cash to keep them in check, this can be significant at dealer prices. You can minimise the hassle through using Shell or BP etc. premium fuel with cleaning additives and making sure that if the car is regenerating, you keep driving until it completes but it's hard to avoid the issues and any recent diesel is a bit of a gamble as you'll have no idea how the previous owner treated it.

Many people were persuaded by low tax pricing (despite depreciation) and bought unsuitable diesels that have spent a few years producing a lot of soot in towns with lots of forced regens and contaminated EGR systems.

Ideally I'd be looking for a petrol turbo with around 150bhp for a ~1250kg Caravan.

The Mazda is a bit of a unique case as they use really high compression ratios therefore produce a bit more torque than most and 2.0 petrol seems to have a good spread of power.

I nearly bought one, but settled on a turbo petrol X-trail in the end as it was a bigger car. The CX5 felt like a golf on stilts, nice car but still quite small. X-trail feels like a bus.... but as was only launched in late 2015 likely to be out of your budget still.





07/6/2018 at 11:42am
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Hi guys

Thank you all for these very helpful responses.

What I'm reading is that for the money we have I either need to get a diesel (with no idea how the DPF has been looked after) or just accept that a petrol car isn't going to be very suitable for pulling a caravan in the future.

We have one child at the moment but are applying to do fostering so may well have a second next year. So predominantly I need a reliable family car for four people that can do short runs and cover my 30 mile round trip to work and back, with some occasional driving holidays.

This all sounds like a petrol, unfortunately.


07/6/2018 at 12:01pm
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Me again. So the caravan we would probably get belongs to my brother in law. He's got it sitting in his drive and has sort of promised it to us in the future for £500.

I know nothing about caravans and havent seen it, but my other half really likes it apparently.

He says that it's 750kg unloaded and 1000kg loaded.

Would that be more doable for a petrol car?



07/6/2018 at 1:48pm
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If you regularly do a 15-mile commute (so about 25-30 minutes journey time)? you should be fine with diesel. The key is that to avoid the DPF from becoming clogged, the engine needs to spend a reasonable amount of time running at normal operating temperature, which it can take 10-15 minutes to reach. So if your journeys were rarely longer than that, petrol would be preferable.

As you say, if you buy a car second-hand you don't know how its been driven, but for a diesel engine in particular it's probably a safer bet to go for a higher mileage and a full service history than a lower mileage with no evidence of how its been looked after.

With respect to the caravan, 750kg unloaded and 1000kg loaded is lightweight in caravan terms and can be towed by most cars from about VW Golf-sized upwards. Around 100-110bhp should cope with it but the more power and torque you have, the more comfortable towing will be. The key things you need to consider are:

- Any car approved for towing will have a manufacturer's maximum towing limit. This will be on the V5 document. In many cases (particularly for powerful diesel engines) this is well in excess of the weight of the car itself, however, it's illegal to tow more than that.

   - Specifically with respect to towing caravans, it's sensible to keep the towed weight less than the kerb weight (essentially the unladen weight with factory fitted accessories) of the car. Most guidance suggests a ratio not greater than about 85% for those new to towing, but this is advisory only and is very crude - a few kg either way will make no real difference in reality.

- If you obtained your full driving licence after 1997, the maximum authorised (i.e. fully-loaded) weight of the car and caravan combined cannot exceed 3500kg unless you take a separate 'B+E' licence test.

The final thing to bear in mind is that a front-wheel drive SUV such as the Qashqai is no better at towing in any way than a conventional hatchback or estate car, apart perhaps from being a bit heavier.

-------------
"Don't wait for the perfect moment. Take the moment and make it perfect."


07/6/2018 at 2:12pm
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Quote: Originally posted by SamandRose on 07/6/2018
If you regularly do a 15-mile commute (so about 25-30 minutes journey time)? you should be fine with diesel. The key is that to avoid the DPF from becoming clogged, the engine needs to spend a reasonable amount of time running at normal operating temperature, which it can take 10-15 minutes to reach. So if your journeys were rarely longer than that, petrol would be preferable.

As you say, if you buy a car second-hand you don't know how its been driven, but for a diesel engine in particular it's probably a safer bet to go for a higher mileage and a full service history than a lower mileage with no evidence of how its been looked after.

With respect to the caravan, 750kg unloaded and 1000kg loaded is lightweight in caravan terms and can be towed by most cars from about VW Golf-sized upwards. Around 100-110bhp should cope with it but the more power and torque you have, the more comfortable towing will be. The key things you need to consider are:

- Any car approved for towing will have a manufacturer's maximum towing limit. This will be on the V5 document. In many cases (particularly for powerful diesel engines) this is well in excess of the weight of the car itself, however, it's illegal to tow more than that.

   - Specifically with respect to towing caravans, it's sensible to keep the towed weight less than the kerb weight (essentially the unladen weight with factory fitted accessories) of the car. Most guidance suggests a ratio not greater than about 85% for those new to towing, but this is advisory only and is very crude - a few kg either way will make no real difference in reality.

- If you obtained your full driving licence after 1997, the maximum authorised (i.e. fully-loaded) weight of the car and caravan combined cannot exceed 3500kg unless you take a separate 'B+E' licence test.

The final thing to bear in mind is that a front-wheel drive SUV such as the Qashqai is no better at towing in any way than a conventional hatchback or estate car, apart perhaps from being a bit heavier.



Thank you that is extremely helpful, and covers most of the things I was wondering about!



07/6/2018 at 8:14pm
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That caravan with 1000kg fully loaded weight is actually light for a caravan.

You need a car with:
- kerb weight of 1177kg or more
- max tow braked trailer weight of 1000kg or more.

Petrol cars will tow it's; just that diesels do it much more effortlessly. Petrols will just need more gear changing and revving on hills.




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